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Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...

YES
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DEPENDS - Each situation needs to be evaluated separately [Please explain in a post]

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Author Topic: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...  (Read 82429 times)

Charles Sullivan

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2006, 12:48:43 AM »

I agree with Duck69's sentiments.  A rank newbie to X10 is often too confused to know what to search for or even what questions to ask.  A little gentle guidance at the start is what's required, even if it means answering the same simple questions time and time again.

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ArtClark

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2006, 04:57:48 AM »

I just had to throw in a comment.  I really consider myself a "Newbie" here and my first questions and expectations of answers
were way out in left field.  I've read a little of what is here, but searching has not really been of any help.  There are enough
posts here, in so many levels of expertise, that I bet a lot of the "Newbie"'s would be as lost as I was.  You always have the
option to reply or not so I can't really see a problem with the way things are.

You guys really do show a lot more patience than most of the people I work with and the atmosphere in this forum is what I
would call "spectacular".  X-10 as well as the "Newbie" people owe a lot to this place.  I really would be against anything that
might limit what a green, new user, could ask.  EVen if it was asked 1 hour before, that particular user may not be able to FIND
that answer without help.

Either way, The job that is being done here is already better than I could hope for.  How could it improve?

Thanks to all of you.
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Puck

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2006, 01:59:41 PM »

One thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of Newbies have already looked for an answer as a guest first. I know I spent many many hours here as a guest long before becoming a member. So the amount of time from start of membership to first question isn't always a true indicator of the person.

Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question. I have seen a few recent questions where the Newbie stated what they already tried... thats an indication they did some homework. I've also seen ones where they obviously didn't look first. But I think the majority fall in the NOT SURE WHAT TO DO NEXT catagory.

As Duck69 indicated, this board is great because the members do take the time to help, and no question goes unanswered. The level of the answer, I guess, depends on the interpretation of the question to the replier. I don't think anyone wants to repeat something that has been said over & over.

If the Newbies give more details about what they are doing & what they have tried, I'm sure that would satistfy everyone trying to help.

To sum things up, all you Oldtimers do an awesome job helping people... whether you show them how to fish, give them a taste to whet their appetite or feed them for the day, it's all HELPFUL!  ;)
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TakeTheActive

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2006, 03:47:25 PM »


One thing to keep in mind too is that a lot of Newbies have already looked for an answer as a guest first... ...So the amount of time from start of membership to first question isn't always a true indicator of the person.

Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question. I have seen a few recent questions where the Newbie stated what they already tried... thats an indication they did some homework. I've also seen ones where they obviously didn't look first...


...I really consider myself a "Newbie" here and my first questions and expectations of answers were way out in left field.  I've read a little of what is here, but searching has not really been of any help.  There are enough posts here, in so many levels of expertise, that I bet a lot of the "Newbie"'s would be as lost as I was.  You always have the option to reply or not so I can't really see a problem with the way things are.

You guys really do show a lot more patience than most of the people I work with and the atmosphere in this forum is what I would call "spectacular".  X-10 as well as the "Newbie" people owe a lot to this place.  I really would be against anything that might limit what a green, new user, could ask...

Text is a difficult medium to properly convey *ALL* of one's thoughts in *ONE* post - many readers of this thread may feel that I'm always coming down too harsh on NEWBIEs, but that's not my intent at all. Look at all the FAQs and documents that I've created.

Puck summed up my feelings pretty well with his statement "Generally the best indicator is the question and / or the details of the question." and ArtClark posted the somewhat obvious (no offense intended) "You always have the option to reply or not...", which, when added together, convey the purpose of this thread - to raise a NEWBIE's awareness.

Although provided and funded by X10, the answers in this forum (for the past several months) have been provided by VOLUNTEERS, some of whom invest MANY personal hours. I'm not asking for any medals, but I *AM* asking all NEWBIEs to *PLEASE* AT LEAST READ THE FAQs *BEFORE* asking any questions.

Compare these 2 "examples":

Quote from: Anonymous 1

I just bought AHP and wired up a few lights. I can control all of them locally but only some of them via AHP. Help!

Quote from: Anonymous 2

I have a DS7000 Powerhouse security system... ...I have 10 door/window sensors and 2 motion sensors installed in my configuration.  All was working for several weeks...

...All of a sudden yesterday, my Zone 8 (window) starts blinking slowly on my console.  According to the user's manual, it means that the main console hasn't communicated with the sensor in the last 4 hours.  The documentation says that it could be because of bad batteries.  I replaced the batteries in this sensor, to no avail.  Same problem.

   Now today, zone 10 (window) and 11 (motion) are similarly blinking slowly (red).  Changed the batteries on these zones, again to no avail...

...Does anyone have any ideas ?

If it appears that you haven't exerted *ANY* effort of your own, please understand that " some " folks will respond in kind.


Show just a little initiative and I believe you'll be overwhelmed with the responses you get... ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 10:31:33 PM by TakeTheActive »
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ADVICE TO X-10 NEWBIES FROM AN X-10 OLD-TIMER

Jollydodger

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2006, 04:40:56 AM »

In my humble opinion your posts are so full of color and font sizes, icons etc. that it makes it wildly difficult to read so I find it very funny you are the one initiating this rant.  People hate ALL CAPS but this is ten times worse.  I usually skip them, no offense, but I am sure you are already aware.

I've read *SEVERAL* posts lately from NEWBIEs that:

  • REGISTER
    .
  • ASK
    .
  • LOGOFF
[/color][/size][/b]
all within the span of a few minutes. :(

So, personally, whether I know the answer not, I don't reply. IMHO, 'No Effort' invested upfront deserves 'No Effort' returned.


But, I've also recently read this interesting post:

Quote from: ANONYMOUS

As far as the Newbees Posting issue I have to say that quite honestly I am overwhelmed by the amount of information available in the forums. Each product I have has its little quirks then add to that the individual circumstances of each persons home or apt wiring, walls, ect. and you have a huge system of variables. So as I have done in the past searching for hours may not produce something that may apply to MY circumstance although it is a frequently asked question. Perhaps a revamp of the search engine in someway?[/b] (TTA NOTE: Not going to happen any time soon.)  All I know personally is that the answers to most common question are here but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out........ but I must say that the few times I have asked questions the replies have been courteous and helpfull so thank you to those with patients....[/size]

"...but it is MORE OF AN EFFORT TO FIND THEM THAN TO POST IT AGAIN and the real issue is that most people are going to take the easy way out..."

Is this *REALLY* a VALID reason to take "...the easy way out..." ?  ??? :(  [Comments encouraged!]

[Please view: MORE STATS: Most Time Online]

Quote from: ANONYMOUS

The problem is that I received the hardware in the mail very quickly but they only sent me a link to  download the macro program. I called, e-mailed, chatted asking for the remainder of my order but NOTHING...... NO reply to MY E-MAILS the person on the phone said she would send the link via my e-mail NOTHING...


Newbies get frustrated when things don't work like the perfect image the $49.95 pop up gave them. Even I get frustrated when something that worked fine for over a year decides it's not going to work right. i.e. I had a signal everywhere in the house one day and now I don't. Still working on finding the cause and I think I know all the possible problems.

An educated newbie can be one of our greatest assets on this board. So I favor a guiding hand rather than a scolding hand even if that means repeating myself multiple times. I just try to find a creative way to say things each time.

I also favor informing NEWBIEs that, for the past several months, VOLUNTEERS have been the *SOLE* source of Tech Support here.

Be patient someone using multiview will responded it may take up to a week! ;) :D
More of the regular posters are ones using the ActiveHome Pro (AHP) software !
 AHP will do what you want! But you'll need the plug-ins iWitness & Myhouse Online
 I can't comment on multiview or the pan&tilt software as I've never used it!

Since it appears that SOMEONE is reading this thread (Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...  (Read 920 times)), I felt it appropriate that I add my recent comments here...

My personal thanks, in advance, to the NEWBIEs that at least invest some time SEARCHing *BEFORE* ASKing...


[NOTE: All formatting in the Anonymous QUOTE is mine... Current Count: 49 DINGs]
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MrBlackCat

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2006, 11:27:46 PM »

This thread just gets stranger and stranger to me...

I suppose I am more black and white than most of this reactionary posting reads.  I would prefer not to tick anyone off being so "new" here and posting in a "situation" like this...
To me it is simple though... help anyone who is "trying".  It is not that hard to distinguish between someone who is overwhelmed, lazy, and someone, angry or not, who is open to assistance and trying to resolve the issue etc.  If you are "helping" someone who isn't listening, or cooperative, then you really aren't helping anyway.
Those who just come here to vent, that wastes "helpers" time in my opinion.  Come back when you aren't angry.  Emotions are generally only complimentary to logic when they are positive.  Negative emotions are genetically designed to protect us in my opinion, for defence.  Not something ideal for a learning state.  We don't learn well when defensive.  Most people I think would agree.
This is painfully over-simplified, but I will just move along unless I think of something I could say that would be productive.

Good luck sorting this out... as long as there is communication it can be "resolved" in some capacity I believe.

John Martin
MrBlackCat

Additional note:  I am aware that I am repeating concepts and ideas (ideals?) that have already been stated by TTA, Puck, and others.  I am just saying them in my own words.  While they are my own views, I am not suggesting they are not shared as though original within this thread.  I believe I "get it" or "see your point" is what I am getting at in my own words.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 02:08:40 AM by MrBlackCat »
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Duck69

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2006, 11:12:03 AM »

Jollydodger,
Some people are able to convey thoughts and emotions through text.
That is, people such as Robert C. Clark, Mark Twain, Asiac Ismanov and the like.
HOWEVER, most of us lack their talent.  :'(
Because of this lack of talent, we use:
CAPITAL letters, BOLD type, Fonts etc. to convey/express our thoughts and feelings on a subject.
Do I get an AMEN ?  ;D
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Puck

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vhoang

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2006, 05:45:22 PM »

Amen..

back to the original post...
What the *bleep* are you talking about.

Sure the forum has answers...  just as my favorite search site google has answers...

If you are going to respond to someone's question as though you know what
you are talking about, one of the most useless thing you can say is go look it
up yourself and walk away.   At a minimum give them the keywords that will take them to
the appropriate links.   They've already muck up the courage to ask.

If you don't want to repeat the answer give them a link to the
thread that will help them out.   My goodness, help the newbies, don't
get irritated.   There are 31 thousand 6 hundred and eight-three post and
growing as I type this.  Even if 95% is repeated (more like 33%), that's still a lot of information to sort through to get to a very simple two sentence answer from someone who knows.

If you feel like wearing a button that sais don't ask me unless you've looked it
up.. go for it I guess.. 

Use charles, tuicemen and brian as your guide if needed.   They will never
get irritated at a newbie.   Charles and brian will always (that i've notice so far) answer the question as best they can.  tuicemen answers new questions but always gives the links when it's a repeat or related issue.   Now that's help.

They are why I still post.  ;)

Everyone else has insight and with it some attitude (not excluding me), which is what makes it interesting.
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Brian H

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2006, 07:11:15 PM »

Just to make one thing clear. Here the use of large type or colors is to emphasize things. In most of the other forums and BBS I use. It is considered rude and annoying. Like you are shouting. Took me awhile to get use to this fact.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2006, 07:42:44 PM »

It took me a while to get use to this as well although I use another board this way as well!
Some forums don't even show these options in the message creation screen but if you know the code you can add it! ;) :D ;D

In defence of TTA the original post was meant to encourage new users to research their problems! And from recent posts from newbies it seems to be working!
The posts that are answered always have a link to very valuable posts that if the user takes the time to read will give some very useful info!
Just look at the tag of all his posts! ADVICE TO X-10 NEWBIES FROM AN X-10 OLD-TIMER
As Duck69 put it:
Quote
Some people are able to convey thoughts and emotions through text.
That is, people such as Robert C. Clark, Mark Twain, Asiac Ismanov and the like.
HOWEVER, most of us lack their talent.

Sometimes lots of quotes helps convey ones thoughts better showing that others feel the sameway! ;)
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Lexington_Browns

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2006, 03:54:37 PM »



As a Newbie I thought that I would respond to this question.  I have been working on various forms of electronics equipment for 26 years.  Mostly however in the PC and UNIX Server field.  I had been interested in home automation and lurked in the home automation news group years ago.  But never had the time or money to invest in pursuing home automation. 

If I may be so bold as to suggest that X10 appears to be marketing their products as plug and play equipment.  Not something that requires a lot of tinkering to make it all work. 

So If you are getting a lot of questions from people who have not RTFM as throughly as you might like,  it may be that they are not looking for a new hobby. 

In my case I came to this group because I was merely trying to get some expensive electronic hardware to work as advertised.

That was my .02. Thanks for reading.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2006, 06:00:09 PM »

Lexington_Browns
Welcome aboard!
True X10 suggest that it is simple and it is(for the most part), making it reliable takes some work and lots of reading! ;)
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KDR

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2006, 07:58:50 PM »

Welcome aboard Lexington_Browns

I think as you sort through the messages here and read the posts you will find some nice ideas on how people are using X10 gear along with other brands. Things that you will want to try. Then Pow!!! Your hooked, you have a new hobby and all you have to figure out now is how to keep the WAF up.  ;D
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HA Dave

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Re: Should Newbies That Invest No Time What-So-Ever SEARCHing The Forums...
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2006, 08:10:18 PM »


If I may be so bold as to suggest that X10 appears to be marketing their products as plug and play equipment.  Not something that requires a lot of tinkering to make it all work. 

So If you are getting a lot of questions from people who have not RTFM as throughly as you might like,  it may be that they are not looking for a new hobby. 

In my case I came to this group because I was merely trying to get some expensive electronic hardware to work as advertised.

I often refer to my X10 projects as a hobby. Because, I mostly use X10 for home automation, and I have no NEED to automate. I guess calling it a hobby helps me justify the obsession I have developed for X10.

I think I share an obsession for X10 products with most of X10 customers. And I can't say I have ever had any real problems getting X10 to work as advertised.

But I must admit, I started out with a starter kit, and "worked my way up" sorta to say.

There have been times... as I have expanded my system(s). That I have had to read the instructions. And through the use of this forum (and RE-reading the instructions) I have learned all I needed to learn.

I think... because X10 keeps the prices so low... it attracts some people to the more complex systems as a 1st purchase. Which is OK, but that can make for a rather steep learning curve, and a condensed amount of reading instructions.

Don't let that be a turn off. This X10 stuff is really cool, and it's more than worth the time, money and effort.
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