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Author Topic: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time  (Read 15463 times)

tom j

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Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« on: January 01, 2007, 09:39:01 PM »

Hi guys well Happy New Year! Got a problem with my Dusk Dawn timers, all my other timers work perfectly except the dust, dawn which are all off, by about 8 minutes for example here in Michigan the program indicates dusk occurs at 8:05 but my timers actually don't occur until about 8 minutes latter, around 8:13 ( I'm aware this changes depending on the resolution) . I was initially told this was a hardware problem so I sent back my Activehome Pro which was under warranty and the new one still has the same problem so I'm now convinced this is a software problem. If I deselect the dusk timer and just leave the timer at 8:05 it works perfectly so go figure?????  :- I waited until I felt all the bugs had basically been resolved before I made this purchase I remember when AHP first came out the timers wouldn't work at all so I figured after two years that it would function correctly, anybody got any idea whats going on I have the latest version of the software I believe 3.204. Another thing I've noticed is the latitude and longitude is different then what was originally in the old Activehome although I don't know if this has anything to do with it, I do know the latitude and longitude here in Michigan hasn't changed. Hoping someone can help me pin this problem down. Thanks

Tom j
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 12:56:23 PM by tom j »
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hostilejava

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 08:22:38 AM »

I noticed if I have Lifestyles enabled in AHP that my timers set to dusk and dawn don't always run on time.  It never really bothered me since the dusk/dawn time is constantly changing.
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Puck

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 08:47:19 AM »

tom j: If your latitude & longitude are now different (in AHP that is), you should be able to enter the correct coordinates. Because of the changing Dusk / Dawn times, there will be some difference from what you see and when the events happen. I haven't played much with them in timers, but maybe the resolution setting in the Hardware Configuration window will affect the time differences.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 03:03:56 AM by Puck »
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tom j

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 04:40:36 AM »

tom j: If your latitude & longitude are now different (in AHP that is), you should be able to enter the correct coordinates. Because of the changing Dusk / Dawn times, there will be some difference from what you see and when the events happen. I haven't played much with them in timers, but maybe the resolution setting in the Hardware Configuration window will affect the time differences.



Thanks for your help, Hum-mm  :- you're saying that even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20?  I really don't understand? for example if say Saturday I run the program with the usb port hooked up to Active Home Pro at 5:15 and it says for that day dusk occurs at 5:20 you're saying it's nothing wrong with the program if it actually comes on say 10 minutes latter???. I would think the time that's displayed is for that specific day if not what use would it be?  Also I would have thought the resolution would of been factored into the calculculation see displayed for that particular day, but that's a good observation! you would think if that were the case that it would be pointed out in the instructions. Thanks!!!

Tom j
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 12:38:06 PM by tom j »
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Puck

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2007, 09:38:09 AM »

...even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20?

I'll have to set up a timer and observe it over a few days, just to see it's characteristics. I don't know if it changes to a different fixed time daily, or does it take the time shown in the hardware configuration and do the daily math behind the scenes. And another question I'd like to answer, does it adjust the time based on where you are located in your time zone using the geographic coordinates? (I.E. Dusk on the west side of the time zone should occur 1 hour after Dusk on the east side... with varying times between.) Your PC will display the time for the whole time zone, but Dusk & Dawn will actually vary throughout it.
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tom j

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 12:54:02 PM »

...even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20?

I'll have to set up a timer and observe it over a few days, just to see it's characteristics. I don't know if it changes to a different fixed time daily, or does it take the time shown in the hardware configuration and do the daily math behind the scenes. And another question I'd like to answer, does it adjust the time based on where you are located in your time zone using the geographic coordinates? (I.E. Dusk on the west side of the time zone should occur 1 hour after Dusk on the east side... with varying times between.) Your PC will display the time for the whole time zone, but Dusk & Dawn will actually vary throughout it.


Hi Puck thanks for your help! looking forward to what you find out, what I've noticed is that the change is gradual and the time change occurs over days for example if you start changing the date of your computers configuration you will see that it doesn't change daily at least if you use the default every eight days resolution, one other thing that leads me to think the time that's displayed is supposedly the time the timer is suppose to occur is that you can add a dusk dawn delay for example for my hallway lights the dusk delay is I think 10 minutes latter so currently the on time is 5:27 pm if you didn't have these offsets I could see that possibly time shown would be the actual calculated dusk time not taking into account the level of resolution but because you can change the aamount of delay and have the time displayed I think the time you see is the actual dusk/dawn time with the resolution factored in. Please let me know what you find out think I'll write x10 priority support and see what they say I'll post their response as soon as I receive one.

Tom j
« Last Edit: January 06, 2007, 12:57:31 PM by tom j »
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waterstom

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2007, 02:43:20 PM »

Hi There all...
my first post, I hope it's on-point -
A suggestion, instead of using the problematic AHP to trigger the dusk/dawn functions, just set a motion-sensor as the trigger for your macro.  I have a few lights which have that going...

Dusk, D4 (living room lamp) and D5 (front door light) ON
23:30 D4 Off
Dawn D5 Off

Just using an eagle/hawk eye and taking advantage of that feature within it.

I would think you could adjust your macros/timers and unselect dusk/dawn, and just use a sensor, I'm sure you've got a spare somewhere, and put it outside without a primary module assigined; just using it for the d/d feature.

Hope this is a decent suggestion, and yes I know that is using hardware to solve a software problem, but I am pretty sure that's what all AHP people have come do resort to now and then   ;)
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tom j

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 07:05:17 PM »

Hi There all...
my first post, I hope it's on-point -
A suggestion, instead of using the problematic AHP to trigger the dusk/dawn functions, just set a motion-sensor as the trigger for your macro.  I have a few lights which have that going...

Dusk, D4 (living room lamp) and D5 (front door light) ON
23:30 D4 Off
Dawn D5 Off

Just using an eagle/hawk eye and taking advantage of that feature within it.

I would think you could adjust your macros/timers and unselect dusk/dawn, and just use a sensor, I'm sure you've got a spare somewhere, and put it outside without a primary module assigined; just using it for the d/d feature.

Hope this is a decent suggestion, and yes I know that is using hardware to solve a software problem, but I am pretty sure that's what all AHP people have come do resort to now and then   ;)

Hi yep I thought about that good idea though was going to use my sundowner but after spending a small fortune on this stuff I would just like it to work as advertised. I just received a e-mail from x10 and Eric said the time that's displayed by the program is the actual time the timer should occur and that the resolution is factored into the equation. Please see below.

Tom j


From x10 Support:

Greetings!

"In other words is what you see what you get."

Yes. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks
for choosing X10!

Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
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tom j

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2007, 10:45:42 PM »

Just got this response from x10 but I don't know if I'm buying this they first said that the time you see in the program is the actual time the timer is suppose to occur. Seems like the program would or at least should be sophisticated enough to factor this in so that the time that's shown is the time the event is suppose to actually occur. What do you guys think?  :-

Tom j

from x10 support

Greetings!

As it gets toward the end of an 8-day period, you will see the times starting to run a little later. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks for choosing X10!

Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
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-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2007, 11:24:52 PM »

Just got this response from x10 but I don't know if I'm buying this they first said that the time you see in the program is the actual time the timer is suppose to occur. Seems like the program would or at least should be sophisticated enough to factor this in so that the time that's shown is the time the event is suppose to actually occur. What do you guys think?  :-

Tom j

from x10 support

Greetings!

As it gets toward the end of an 8-day period, you will see the times starting to run a little later. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks for choosing X10!

Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support


From personal experience:

I use a dusk timer with a minus 1 hour offset to turn on the living room lamp before it gets too dark.
It does appear to "drift" a little as it approches the next date for which the hardware config shows a new time.
I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.

This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).

Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?

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-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)
bill@wgjohns.com

In the real world, the only constant is change.

When I'm online you can find me in the Home Automation Chat Room!

Puck

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 09:30:07 AM »

I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.

This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).

Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?

Bill: I have a timer set starting today to check for any time drift from the displayed times. I say times because I do see different times when comparing the Hardware Configuration & the actual timer.

(I didn't forget about you Tom;) Had to get my set-up changes completed.)

Today is day 2 of the eight day resolution in my hardware configuration, so over the next few days I will document all the times and post back when I get some data.
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tom j

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 07:11:43 PM »

I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.

This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).

Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?

Bill: I have a timer set starting today to check for any time drift from the displayed times. I say times because I do see different times when comparing the Hardware Configuration & the actual timer.

(I didn't forget about you Tom;) Had to get my set-up changes completed.)

Today is day 2 of the eight day resolution in my hardware configuration, so over the next few days I will document all the times and post back when I get some data.


God bless ya Puck really really appreciate your help! I just been tearing my hair out over this, yes I know it's not that serious or the end of the world but it's that I keep getting different explanations from x10 and it's very frustrating if this is the way the product was designed fine but I feel they should at least point this out in the manual or the knowledge base. Here's there latest one please see below. As of today all my timers are off by 9 minutes, with a resolution of 1.5% or every 8 days. Thanks Puck!!!!

Tom j



From x10: Granularity I thought that ment having a grainy surface or containing grains or granules, see what I mean  ::)

Greetings!

There is always going to be some "granularity" in the dusk/dawn
behavior. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks
for choosing X10!

Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
http://kbase.x10.com/


« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 07:41:35 PM by tom j »
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Puck

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2007, 08:18:21 PM »

Tom: Here is what I observed over the past 4 days.

Under tools/hardware configuration the Dusk Time between 01/09-01/17 shows 17:03 (5:03pm).

The following are the Dusk Times the Timers showed and the actual time that the Timer triggered:


Day         Timer Dusk Time          Actual Trigger Time
=====================================
Jan 10            4:53pm                            5:03pm
Jan 11            4:55pm                            5:03pm
Jan 12            4:55pm                            5:03pm
Jan 13            4:57pm                            5:03pm


So it appears, in my setup up anyways, whatever time the hardware config shows is when the Timer triggers. It just doesn't make since why the timer's time changes (almost) daily but isn't actually used.  ???

As you can see, at the start of the 8-day resolution, the Timer looks like it is 10 minutes late.

Hopefully someone else will do a test and see if they get the same results or something different.

(AHP Ver. 3.206, Win2K)
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delibaker

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2007, 11:47:54 AM »

I've been using the dusk/dawn timer for a backyard light and a bedroom air cleaner for 3+ months and the dawn off time has been on the mark.  I can't vouch for the dusk on time since I'm not home when it occurs weekdays, but on weekends it appears to be correct.  My dusk/dawn resolution in hardware configuration is set to every 2 days.
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Puck

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Re: Dusk Dawn Timers Don't Work On Time
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2007, 12:08:50 PM »

Thanks for the input delibaker, I'm going to change my resolution to 2 days also to see if the actual trigger time is closer to the Timer's display time.
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