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Author Topic: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)  (Read 28971 times)

Charles Sullivan

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2006, 10:53:58 AM »

[
Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes, which are unfortunately not supported by  either ActiveHome Pro or the CM15A firmware.
My quick look at the X10 Decode Tables led me to believe you could send specific ON and OFF codes to control setback or specific temperatures. How are Preset Dim codes used? Can it also set temperature temperature based on a particular dim setting?

The ON and OFF codes only provide 1-way communication to the TXB16 Thermostat - you can set it but not read it.

Preset Dim codes are required for 2-way communication, e.g.,  you can query the thermostat for various status information like the current room temperature and get back the result encoded in a Unit Number + Preset Level message.

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roger1818

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2006, 10:39:47 AM »

Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes,

CORRECT!

Quote
or the CM15A firmware.

INCORRECT!

The CM15A firmware does support the old-style Preset Dim codes if you use the SDK.  There are many caveats when trying to use them, but there are workarounds.  Check out the thread Reading TempLinc temperature codes? for more details (the TempLinc also uses the old Preset Dim commands).
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2006, 10:53:51 AM »

Utilizing the full capability of the TXB16 requires sending and receiving the old-style Preset Dim codes,

CORRECT!

Quote
or the CM15A firmware.

INCORRECT!

The CM15A firmware does support the old-style Preset Dim codes if you use the SDK.  There are many caveats when trying to use them, but there are workarounds.  Check out the thread Reading TempLinc temperature codes? for more details (the TempLinc also uses the old Preset Dim commands).

What you say is true, at least for sending Preset Dim commands with the SDK.  Can you read them also?  I've only used the ahcmd.exe command in the SDK.

What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).



« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 10:58:08 AM by Charles Sullivan »
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X10 on Windows is like that.

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roger1818

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2006, 11:01:10 AM »

What you say is true.  What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).

I am not sure if it is firmware limitation or if they haven't bothered implementing it in the AHP software.  To the best of my knowledge X10  hasn't published the spec for downloading macros so it would be hard to say definitively what is and isn't supported.

It would surprise me if it isn't supported in firmware, but then again it surprised me that the firmware supposedly doesn't support address only messages in downloaded macros.
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roger1818

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2006, 03:03:32 PM »

I split Dave W's copyright question into a separate thread entitled Copyright Question about Article written in defunct “Popular Home Automation” Magazine and moved it to General Discussion
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 03:07:34 PM by roger1818 »
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2006, 02:19:15 PM »

What you say is true.  What I meant to indicate is that the CM15A firmware does not support the Preset Dim commands in downloaded macros (unless there has been an upgraded firmware since the date of my CM15A).

I am not sure if it is firmware limitation or if they haven't bothered implementing it in the AHP software.  To the best of my knowledge X10  hasn't published the spec for downloading macros so it would be hard to say definitively what is and isn't supported.

It would surprise me if it isn't supported in firmware, but then again it surprised me that the firmware supposedly doesn't support address only messages in downloaded macros.

Roger,
I've posted info about patching the downloaded CM15A EEPROM code in message:
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10821.msg61763#msg61763

What I've done in the past is download a macro with a sequence of On and Off signals.  Then I patched the EEPROM code to replace one of the On or Off function bytes with one of the other X10 function bytes not supported for macros in AHP,  i.e., AllLightsOff, Preset 1, Preset 2, Hail, HailAck, StatusOn, StatusOff, StatusReq, from the CM11A Protocol document.  I triggered the macro and monitored the power line with a CM11A to see what (if any) response I got from the CM15A.

This was some time ago and with a very early CM15A.  I recall specifically that the Preset 1 & 2 and the StatusReq functions didn't work but don't remember about the others.  (I was most disappointed that the StatusReq didn't work since I use that a bit with my CM11A.)   I reported my findings to X10Pro at the time.  I haven't gotten around to checking whether anything has been changed in more recent vintage CM15A firmwares.



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KingwoodAutomation

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 07:49:02 PM »

From what I am seeing. I think the best thing to do is to just go back to the CM11A. It is supported by many 3rd party software designs and it seems a little more flexable. To me, it SEEMS like you have more control over your modules and with the newer Active Home, you are limited to what is offered for modules.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 09:18:27 PM »

The only problem with going back to the CM11A is some (not alll) XP machines have problems with accessing serial ports, so the CM11A vansihes from Active Home. It also will not interface with Active Home Pro, since it was programmed to use only the USB CM15A interface.

A few people have had success using a USB to serial adapter to continue using Active Home on XP where there are serial port problems.
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helipilot

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2007, 12:20:03 PM »

I  have been researching the availability of two different module/controllers that are already available through other companies.  I want to have the HVAC system AND the hot water heater (gas) controllable via WEB in a home in another state.  It's in a dessert environment that gets very hot in the summer and cold in the winter.  I need to be able to log into the system remotely and adjust the heating and AC as the seasons change without having to be there.

The only current module I see from X10 is unacceptable (the one that plugs in under the thermostat and blows hot air).  That may have been OK in the 1970's but is unacceptable today.  In addition. I have read in another company's site of a module that will control the water heater, and still another that will sense water on the floor (sensor) that can notify the system of a possible water leak/pipe break. 

Since these modules already exist by other companies, it seems to me that X10 wouldn't have to do much to copy their functionality but make them work within the X10 system.

For me, the primary reason for choosing an automated system for remote use is the Heating/AC, sprinklers and water heater.  The lights can be set on timers if needed, but since X10 already can controll those, that's just icing on the cake. 

Anybody been able to use these modules from the other companies successfully with the X10 platform?  If so, can you let us in on what you did, how it works and any snags we need to consider.  Thanks.

KRR
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roger1818

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2007, 12:14:30 PM »

I don't know about controlling the hot water, but for the HVAC, RCS makes an X10 thermostat.  You can get it from Automated Outlet.

Since you also mentioned sprinklers, the most popular sprinkler controller is the Rain8 from WGL & Associates although I think SmartHome also makes an Insteon one which would probably be backwards compatible with X10.

The thing to look for with critical applications such as HVAC and sprinklers is that they operate independently of X10 (X10 should only be used to override the default behavior).  Although reliable enough for lights and such where if it doesn't turn on or off it isn't the end of the world, it isn't 100% reliable and you don't want a missed command to cause a flood or pipes to freeze.
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dav

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Re: [IDEAS] Using Programmable Thermostats With X10 (AH/AHP)
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2007, 12:30:38 PM »

At my lake home I have my regular programmable thermostat and then an old round honeywell thermostat set at 55 in the winter or 80 in the summer.  From my work computer 80 miles away I can toggle between them using a RCS X10 8 pole relay.  If we decide to go to the lake for the weekend I log into my remote web server and make the switch.  I don't have a computer at the lake but I can still switch thermostats (I also can switch my water heater and well on or off from work or wherever).  You can buy this X10 remote web server on eBAY.  Not sure of the link...type in "internet" and "X10".
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