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Author Topic: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?  (Read 22849 times)

michrech

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2007, 07:57:02 PM »

Got some news. 

Received the hardware today.  For the first minute that I had the TM751 plugged into the UPS, it took longer and longer to turn the lamp on and off.  Then, it stopped working altogether.  It works fine when plugged into the wall.

I'll go ahead and try the "SocketRocket" and see what it does.  :)

Looks like it's time to hit the checkout!  :)

Thanks again, everyone!
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2007, 08:26:15 PM »

Got some news. 

Received the hardware today.  For the first minute that I had the TM751 plugged into the UPS, it took longer and longer to turn the lamp on and off.  Then, it stopped working altogether.  It works fine when plugged into the wall.

I'll go ahead and try the "SocketRocket" and see what it does.  :)

Looks like it's time to hit the checkout!  :)

Thanks again, everyone!


The TM751 was probably starting to heat up, but you caught it in time before it smoked.

It's not clear to me how the SocketRocket will solve your problem.  It's actuated by powerline signals, not RF like the TM751.

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michrech

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2007, 11:59:27 PM »

It never got hot that I could tell.  It just stopped responding.  :)

If I read things correctly, Dave_x10_L said it should work. 

This is turning out more difficult than I thought.  :)

Are there any modules that could have a lamp plugged into them that would receive their signal via RF?

Got some news. 

Received the hardware today.  For the first minute that I had the TM751 plugged into the UPS, it took longer and longer to turn the lamp on and off.  Then, it stopped working altogether.  It works fine when plugged into the wall.

I'll go ahead and try the "SocketRocket" and see what it does.  :)

Looks like it's time to hit the checkout!  :)

Thanks again, everyone!


The TM751 was probably starting to heat up, but you caught it in time before it smoked.

It's not clear to me how the SocketRocket will solve your problem.  It's actuated by powerline signals, not RF like the TM751.


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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 01:33:24 AM »

It never got hot that I could tell.  It just stopped responding.  :)

If you plug it into the UPS again, does it immediately fail to respond or does it repeat the gradual process you observed the first time?

Quote

If I read things correctly, Dave_x10_L said it should work. 

I think that might have been just a question of what would survive if plugged into the UPS - not what would meet your requirements.

Quote
This is turning out more difficult than I thought.  :)

Are there any modules that could have a lamp plugged into them that would receive their signal via RF?


There are non-X10 RF-actuated lamp modules, but there's no guarantee they'll survive your UPS environment any better than the TM751.  I think it was at Lowe's where  I saw the GE remote modules and controllers.  They use a different RF technology than X10 but the internal power supply could well be similar to a TM751.

You've stated that you want to control a lamp plugged into the UPS with something that looks like a light switch.  Perhaps if you describe the reason for wanting to have this arrangement, some alternatives could come to mind.

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Brian H

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 06:53:45 AM »

It was most likely starting to overheat. Mine was marginal also for maybe a minute; then degraded and I could smell the resistor and coil in the power supply as the heat shrink tubing got hot.
After cooling in a normal outlet. It still works.
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michrech

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 11:40:36 PM »

The reason I wish to control a lamp that is plugged into a UPS is because, especially in icy winters, or in the hottest periods of summer, the town in which I live can lose power quite frequently; most of the time at night.  For this reason, I wish to keep the floor lamp (which uses a 24w CF bulb) hooked up to a UPS so I'm not suddenly plunged into the dark.

I've gotten over wishing to have something as close to a light switch as possible.  I'm fine with something that looks like the SS13A...  I just want to be able to control the lamp.. eheheh

As it stands, so long as the UPS is not running on battery, the TM751 is fine -- works perfectly.  It's only when it's on battery that it doesn't respond to commands.  It stays in whatever state it was when the UPS switched to battery.

It never got hot that I could tell.  It just stopped responding.  :)

If you plug it into the UPS again, does it immediately fail to respond or does it repeat the gradual process you observed the first time?

Quote

If I read things correctly, Dave_x10_L said it should work. 

I think that might have been just a question of what would survive if plugged into the UPS - not what would meet your requirements.

Quote
This is turning out more difficult than I thought.  :)

Are there any modules that could have a lamp plugged into them that would receive their signal via RF?


There are non-X10 RF-actuated lamp modules, but there's no guarantee they'll survive your UPS environment any better than the TM751.  I think it was at Lowe's where  I saw the GE remote modules and controllers.  They use a different RF technology than X10 but the internal power supply could well be similar to a TM751.

You've stated that you want to control a lamp plugged into the UPS with something that looks like a light switch.  Perhaps if you describe the reason for wanting to have this arrangement, some alternatives could come to mind.


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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 03:24:20 AM »

The reason I wish to control a lamp that is plugged into a UPS is because, especially in icy winters, or in the hottest periods of summer, the town in which I live can lose power quite frequently; most of the time at night.  For this reason, I wish to keep the floor lamp (which uses a 24w CF bulb) hooked up to a UPS so I'm not suddenly plunged into the dark.

I've gotten over wishing to have something as close to a light switch as possible.  I'm fine with something that looks like the SS13A...  I just want to be able to control the lamp.. eheheh

Presuming you don't find a transceiver that will survive the UPS environment, here's an alternative idea:
Get a relay with DPDT contacts and a 120V coil, plus two cheap extension cords.
Cut the plug with some length of wire attached from one of the extension cords and connect it to the coil of the relay.  Call this "plug A". 

Cut the plug and socket from the other extension cord, each with some length of wire attached.  Connect this plug and socket to the contacts of the relay, such that there's a current path from plug to socket when the contacts are in the _normally closed_ position. Call this "plug B" and "socket B".

Insert "plug A" into any electrical outlet other than the controlled outlet of the UPS.
Insert "plug "B" into the controlled outlet of the UPS.
Plug your floor lamp into "socket B".

Now under normal power conditions the relay coil will be energized and the electrical path to the lamp will be broken.  When there's a power failure, the coil will be de-energized, the contacts will go back to their normally closed position and the lamp will come on.

Knowing now how the wires are to be connected, you can determine the actual lengths of wire referred to above as "some length of wire".  If your UPS is anything like mine, you have both controlled and non-controlled outlets on it, so the wires left connected to "plug A" and "plug B" can be relatively short and about the same length.

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HA Dave

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 10:07:38 AM »

Or maybe just an oldfashion emergency light and a flashlight in your desk drawer.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 10:17:21 AM by Dave_x10_L »
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michrech

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 05:41:37 PM »

Would you put one of those ugly things in your livingroom/kitchen/bedroom/etc?  :)

I have flashlights.  I just seem to never be able to find them when the power goes out.. eheheheh

Or maybe just an oldfashion emergency light and a flashlight in your desk drawer.
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HA Dave

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 06:00:27 PM »

Would you put one of those ugly things in your livingroom/kitchen/bedroom/etc?  :)


Sure. In my living room I would mount (hide) it behind the TV to light up (reflect off of) the wall when power fails. In the kitchen, I would mount it under a cabinet (near the stove). And in the bedroom I would likely just use the flashlight under the head of my bed.
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michrech

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2007, 02:05:56 PM »

Bah..  :)

I think I'll just stick to purchasing a lamp module and take it to the local "electronics repair guy" and see if he can modify it to work properly on a UPS. :)

Besides..  How are you going to mount one of those things behind your TV if your TV is mounted to a wall (or worse, installed into a "builtin")?  :)

Would you put one of those ugly things in your livingroom/kitchen/bedroom/etc?  :)


Sure. In my living room I would mount (hide) it behind the TV to light up (reflect off of) the wall when power fails. In the kitchen, I would mount it under a cabinet (near the stove). And in the bedroom I would likely just use the flashlight under the head of my bed.
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Brian H

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2007, 04:34:41 PM »

Not going to be an easy task on the modify to run on the UPS.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2007, 08:12:06 PM »

I think I'll just stick to purchasing a lamp module and take it to the local "electronics repair guy" and see if he can modify it to work properly on a UPS. :)

And a modified lamp module will do what to meet your requirements?
I guarantee you'll get nowhere.  It'd be cheaper to find a new UPS which works with the TM751.

Per my previous suggestion, here's a relay and a box to mount the whole thing in:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RLY-453/500/120_VAC_RELAY,_DPDT_12_AMPS_.html
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/1591-MSBK/219/BLACK_PLASTIC_CASE,_3.3%22#34;_X_2.2%22#34;_X_1.04%22#34;_.html                                                       
Relay + Box + S&H = $11.55
2 extension cords (from Dollar Tree) = $2.00
Total parts: $13.55
Labor from your "local electronics repair guy" (presuming you're electrically and mechanically incompetent): 1 hour @ $100/hour
Total parts and labor = $113.55

if you want local control via RF in addition to the light when the power goes off, insert the plug "A" I described into the TM751 plugged into the wall socket.  It'll just work backwards - turn on the TM751 and the lamp will go off, and vice-versa.

I'm outta here.

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vhoang

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2007, 07:14:55 AM »

I was working on a different forum post and realized another solutioin for this that *might* work ok.

Universal module in front of the UPS.
PowerFlash module behind.
one pair of wire leading from the UM to the PF.

And bingo, a simple way to hop across any PLC blockage.    Might need a couple of filters here and there to clean the setup up, but hey, it's just and idea.

Downstream of the PF you can have your socketrocket or a sturdy LM module.
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dave w

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Re: Control of a lamp plugged into an APC UPS?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2007, 12:17:12 PM »

FWIW thought on this topic:

I wonder if plugging the TM 751 into problem UPS, through a 1:1 isolation transformer would smooth the output of the "modified waveform" UPS enough that the TM751 would tolerate it?

Anybody ever experimented?
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