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Author Topic: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!  (Read 25573 times)

dave w

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2007, 01:45:44 PM »


They describe the trigger for this to be closing an external NO switch. Also it is a stay energized for a set time instead of a delay to energize. That's the size I'm looking for. however.

I just reread your answer. Are you suggesting attaching a normally closed relay this product to negate its function? I think the signal would be sent to the powerflash before the signal would trip the 2nd relay.

I want 1 relay that delays for a few minutes and then closes.

This is closer to what I'm needing. I'd still need to modify its delayed out from it to trigger the Powerflash module. Maybe some simple circuit to step down the voltage. to an acceptable input for the Powerflash trigger.

Walt2's  idea of the 555 is probably a better way to go, but:

I found lots of "Make on Delay" relays by googling "time delay relay" but none from surplus suppliers, hence they were $35 to $300 in price.

As far as the timer module; my cheap suggestion relies on some hysteresis in your system, but the idea was to have the timer module to a power 120V relay and connect the N.C. contacts of the relay to the powerflash.

When power is first restored, the adjustable time module will power the relay OPENING the contacts across the Powerflash. I figure the Powerflash MIGHT see a few milliseconds of the N.C. contacts but it won't have time to send an ON X10 code. After your predetermined delay the timer module de-energizes the relay and a closure is then applied to the Powerflash. 

Hey a synapse just fired.... Use the relay N.C. contacts to supply power to the Powerflash and just put a short across the input terminals.

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Oldtimer

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2007, 03:42:03 PM »


Hey a synapse just fired.... Use the relay N.C. contacts to supply power to the Powerflash and just put a short across the input terminals.


A word of caution here, and I hope some other Forum readers can share their experience to help clarify the situation. 

Last year I used a similar trick with a thermostat, a PF284 Powerflash and an appliance module to install a solar heat redistribution system in my house.  I posted that system and a separate write up on the trick itself in the Forum.

I just tried to use the same trick in the attic fan control system I just posted and discovered that the PSC01 Powerflash doesn't seem to send out an X10 signal when it's powered up, if the input terminals are shorted, like the PF284 does.  Because of this I've had to make small changes to the attic fan control system wiring and programming which will be posted shortly. Since the two applications aren't exactly identical I need more information from others to help decide whether the differences in the two systems or the devices themselves caused the problem.
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dave w

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2007, 04:37:40 PM »

Oh, good to know, OT.

Walt2's  555 is looking even better.

stevenr
 You will need to test your Powerflash units to see if they will transmit an ON when power is applied with  the input terminals shorted before using the synapse idea.
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steven r

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2007, 12:20:08 AM »

...the PSC01 Powerflash doesn't seem to send out an X10 signal when it's powered up, if the input terminals are shorted, like the PF284 does....

...You will need to test your Powerflash units to see if they will transmit an ON when power is applied with the input terminals shorted...

What I have right now is a PowerFlash model PSC01 with the contacts shorted. If I unplug it and then replug it, it will send a signal.
I want the delay to increase reliability of the setup. i.e. Make sure the power has really been restored rather than just a flicker on and off.
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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2007, 08:02:36 AM »


What I have right now is a PowerFlash model PSC01 with the contacts shorted. If I unplug it and then replug it, it will send a signal.


Thank you for the additional info.  It's just what I needed.  I think what happened is that I had a loose connection in the attic XPFM wiring in front of the PSC01.  When it switched on the vibration jiggled the connection and the noise blocked the signal from the PSC01.  I could see it on my ELK meter but didn't know what was causing it.  It turns out the rewiring, which also corrected the loose connection, and the program changes gave a better attic system anyway so nothing was lost in the process except some hair.
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dave w

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2007, 12:35:48 PM »

...You will need to test your Powerflash units to see if they will transmit an ON when power is applied with the input terminals shorted...

What I have right now is a PowerFlash model PSC01 with the contacts shorted. If I unplug it and then replug it, it will send a signal.
I want the delay to increase reliability of the setup. i.e. Make sure the power has really been restored rather than just a flicker on and off.
Quote

Wohoo! Then regrding use of the timer module: the only unanswered question is; If you use a short instead of the momentary push button, will the timer module will: Start, energize the the relay, time out and de-energize the relay (you are using the N.C. contacts remember) when the power is interupted. I'm excited because I can't find any $5 make-on-delay modules any more, and these might be a cheap(er) fix.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16271
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RLY-453/500400/120_VAC_RELAY,_DPDT_12_AMPS_.html

So Steve, who's going to buy a "G16271" to see if it works, first?  :D
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gil shultz

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2007, 11:20:24 PM »

Good Evening,

Thanks for the comments.  I do not have a clue as to what PMs are nor do I know how to insert pictures but thanks for the nice comments.

If you want to do it with X10 since you have the box etc for the relay get a relay with a lower voltage coil such as a 12VDC coil then get a plug supply rated at least enough current to power the relay.  Assume the relay coil is 12VDC 150 ma.  Any plug supply rated at 12VDC 150 ma or greater will work i.e. if it is rated at 1A no problem.  AC relays work also just use an ac output plug supply.  Connect the plug supply to the relay coil.  Use the relay contacts for your load. Surplus plug supplies are less then $5.00.

Then plug the wall supply into an appliance module and you are all set.

Have Fun
Gil Shultz

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TakeTheActive

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2007, 12:16:30 AM »


...I do not have a clue as to what PMs are...

At the top-left of your screen, just under X10 Wireless Home, you'll see "User Info". The first line "should say":

Quote
Hey, gil shultz, you have NNN messages, YY is/are new.

CLICK on the NNN messages and catch up on all the PMs folks have been sending you! :D
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gil shultz

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Re: [WTD] AM-type Device That Defaults to OFF After a Power Outage!
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2007, 12:04:52 AM »

Good Evening,

In the many years I have been in the electronic and power arenas; I do not over rate the device that is spending money that I can use on something else. I use the manufacturer’s ratings, they build the things, they also understand what they can do much better then I and they guarantee them at there rating. The real problem is understanding the load.

Good Luck
Gil Shultz
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