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Author Topic: Help with setup  (Read 9276 times)

mabergin

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Help with setup
« on: July 12, 2007, 11:02:07 PM »

   I thought I had things under control.I have a active eye sensor in the front of my house.I wanted it to controll my porch light,my walk light and two lights on the front of my garage.My garage is attached to my house next to my living room.If I put the rr501 transceiver in the living room next to the garage the porch light and the walk light will come on when motion is detected but the lights on the garage won't come on.If I put the transceiver in the garage the garage lights will come on and the porch light and walk light will not.I can turn them all on by remote control regardless of where the transceiver is.
     I also have a pr511 floodlight on my barn in the back yard.I can't get it to respond to the delay I set it.I have to turn it off by remote.I am going nuts trying to set this up!
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Boiler

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 11:37:23 PM »

   I thought I had things under control.I have a active eye sensor in the front of my house.I wanted it to controll my porch light,my walk light and two lights on the front of my garage.My garage is attached to my house next to my living room.If I put the rr501 transceiver in the living room next to the garage the porch light and the walk light will come on when motion is detected but the lights on the garage won't come on.If I put the transceiver in the garage the garage lights will come on and the porch light and walk light will not.I can turn them all on by remote control regardless of where the transceiver is.
     I also have a pr511 floodlight on my barn in the back yard.I can't get it to respond to the delay I set it.I have to turn it off by remote.I am going nuts trying to set this up!

Sounds like you have a "classic case" of phase communication problems.  Your house is fed by two separate lines that provide 110 Volts in reference to a common line.  These lines are referred to as "phases" because they are 90o out of phase (when one line is at a maximum potential, the other is at a minimum potential).  The potential between either of these lines to comon (white) is 110 V.  The potential between the 2 feeds is 220 V (110 + 110).

This presents a problem for X10 in that the only connection between the phases (at times) may be the external transformer that feeds your home.  X10 signals have problems making it through this transformer (signal loss).

In order to check this, try turning on a 220 volt appliance (oven, dryer, well pump, heat pump, etc).  The 220V appliance will provide a "better" connector for your X10 signal to cross the phases and may allow your lamps to function.  If this works, you need a X10 signal coupler (plug in or wire in) to couple the phases.

If this doesn't work, get back to us and we'll try plan B.

<<edit - corrected single phase voltage typo>>
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 08:20:23 AM by Boiler »
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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 09:08:48 AM »

Will try
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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 10:08:40 PM »

   Tried turning dryer on.I still have same problem.I have 2 transceivers in the house.One is on the backside of house and it is set at a2.It is for my flood light on my yardbarn and my back porch light.
    On the front side of my house I have a transceiver and it is set for A1.It is for my walk light,porch light and front garage lights.Could this set up be wrong?
     When the delay shut off my front lights tonight it turned on my back floodlight on my yardbarn.Could I get another transceiver to take care of the front light problem?Also my floodlight will not shutoff.I have to shut it off with remote.I am beginning to wonder if its worth it.
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Puck

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 02:39:01 AM »

     When the delay shut off my front lights tonight it turned on my back floodlight on my yardbarn.Could I get another transceiver to take care of the front light problem?Also my floodlight will not shutoff.I have to shut it off with remote.I am beginning to wonder if its worth it.

It turned on because of the UnitCode + 1 Dusk/Dawn feature of your ActiveEye Motion detector. This feature can be turned off, or change your unit codes from "1" & "2" to (e.g.) "1" & "3".

As Boiler mentioned, it sounds like you have either a phase issue or signal path integrity issue from where the front transceiver is located and the lights you are controlling via motion detection are on your house circuit. I suspect you can control them from your remote because of the back transceiver being electrically better located.

You didn't mention if the 2nd transceiver is also a RR501(?) I do know they are polite, but I can't say for sure how they react when 2 receive an RF signal simultaneously. Having both set to House Code "A" could be causing problems.

Maybe try removing the back transceiver and seeing if you can turn the  front lights on & off with your remote & motion detector. Once you get that going, re-introduce the back transceiver and see what happens.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 09:55:53 AM »

     When the delay shut off my front lights tonight it turned on my back floodlight on my yardbarn.Could I get another transceiver to take care of the front light problem?Also my floodlight will not shutoff.I have to shut it off with remote.I am beginning to wonder if its worth it.

It turned on because of the UnitCode + 1 Dusk/Dawn feature of your ActiveEye Motion detector. This feature can be turned off, or change your unit codes from "1" & "2" to (e.g.) "1" & "3".

As Boiler mentioned, it sounds like you have either a phase issue or signal path integrity issue from where the front transceiver is located and the lights you are controlling via motion detection are on your house circuit. I suspect you can control them from your remote because of the back transceiver being electrically better located.

You didn't mention if the 2nd transceiver is also a RR501(?) I do know they are polite, but I can't say for sure how they react when 2 receive an RF signal simultaneously. Having both set to House Code "A" could be causing problems.

Maybe try removing the back transceiver and seeing if you can turn the  front lights on & off with your remote & motion detector. Once you get that going, re-introduce the back transceiver and see what happens.


If you have 2 RR501's, you must have them on different housecodes. If you don't, they will both get very flaky and refuse RF signals.
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Boiler

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 10:13:18 AM »

mabergin,

As Puck suggested -
  • Move your yard barn switch and second transceiver to address A3 to prevent the dusk/dawn output from your A1 motion sensor from triggering it (BTW - nice catch Puck). 
  • Try experimenting with only one transceiver.  Front of house (near motion sensor)/ rear of house (near garage)

I'm still trying to get a handle on your configuration:
   I have a active eye sensor in the front of my house.I wanted it to controll my porch light,my walk light and two lights on the front of my garage.My garage is attached to my house next to my living room.If I put the rr501 transceiver in the living room next to the garage the porch light and the walk light will come on when motion is detected but the lights on the garage won't come on.If I put the transceiver in the garage the garage lights will come on and the porch light and walk light will not.I can turn them all on by remote control regardless of where the transceiver is.

The description above really sounds like a phase problem.  Your RR501 should transceive the RF signal from the motion sensor and broadcast the commands over all of the power lines in your house.  By moving the RR501 you moved over to the other power line phase and your garage lights began working (and porch light stopped). 
  • When you say you can turn them all on by remote control, what device are you using?  A plug in power line controller or a wireless remote (palm pad RF)? If you are using a "wired controller" it may have more power than the RR501 (which allows it to reach all your devices).  If you are using a RF controller, it may have more RF power than your motion sensor but that should not make a difference (unless you had more than one transceiver).  Your motion sensor signals are reaching the RR501.  The RR501 simply can dive the entire power line
  • Did you have the second transceiver connected at this time? 
  • Do you have a CM15a controller?


   Tried turning dryer on.I still have same problem.I have 2 transceivers in the house.One is on the backside of house and it is set at a2.It is for my flood light on my yardbarn and my back porch light.
    On the front side of my house I have a transceiver and it is set for A1.It is for my walk light,porch light and front garage lights.Could this set up be wrong?
     When the delay shut off my front lights tonight it turned on my back floodlight on my yardbarn.Could I get another transceiver to take care of the front light problem?Also my floodlight will not shutoff.I have to shut it off with remote.I am beginning to wonder if its worth it.

You should never place two transceivers on the same house code ("A" in your case).  This configuration my really be complicating things for you due to intermittent collisions between the two devices (nothing gets through).  The RR501 is a pretty decent RF range.  If you find a location where a sensor can't reach the RR501,  install a second transceiver on a different house code ("B" for example) and move your sensor to that.

When you speak of the delay for the front lights - are we talking about a motion sensor delay or a macro delay in a CM15a.

Your PR511 floodlight did not shut off because the motion sensor "commanded it on" with the dusk/dawn output (Puck's post).  The delay programmed into the PR511 only applies to it's motion activated turn on.  If you command it on it will stay on until you command it off.

It looks like Dan Lawrence has posted since I started this.  We all appear to be in agreement - two transceivers on the same house code = BAD.
We are trying to help here.  It may take you some time to separate out all the variables.  Please start by eliminating the second transceiver.  Things may become much clearer.


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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 10:48:17 AM »

    Iam using a kr22a credit card remote.I will take out second transceiver tonight and see how it goes.Right now I have another life and will return later.
     By the way ..can this remote be programmed so that the second row of buttons control something that is on household code B while the first row of buttons are on A?
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Boiler

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 11:00:15 AM »

    Iam using a kr22a credit card remote.I will take out second transceiver tonight and see how it goes.Right now I have another life and will return later.
     By the way ..can this remote be programmed so that the second row of buttons control something that is on household code B while the first row of buttons are on A?

OK, now I'm really confused.  I would think that the KR22a would have less RF range than your motion sensor.  Either way you are operating through the same RR501 to put the commands on the power line.  If the RR501 operates everything with the KR22a, it should work the same with the motion sensor (unless the KR22a is reaching both transceivers and bridging the power line phases). 

As far as programming the remote - it looks like the house code can be re-assigned, but you can't use multiple house codes for the different buttons.  This is pretty common with all of the X10 RF remotes.

Manual:
ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/kr22a-is.pdf

Glad to hear you have another life going on... More people should try it.
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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 09:59:16 PM »

Put one transceiver in the garage and one in the living room.All lights come on now at the same time.The first time they didn't shut off together but the next 2 times they did.Do you think I should still get a plug in coupler?If so just the standard coupler or the one that amplifies?
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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 10:04:29 PM »

   Forgot..... my home is 1587 sq. ft.
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Boiler

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 11:48:57 PM »

Put one transceiver in the garage and one in the living room.All lights come on now at the same time.The first time they didn't shut off together but the next 2 times they did.Do you think I should still get a plug in coupler?If so just the standard coupler or the one that amplifies?

To be honest, I'm not sure how to interpret this -
  • Option 1 is the transceiver you moved to the garage is now outside the RF range of your transmitter (motion sensor or KR22a).  Because it's out of range it is no longer interfering with the RR501 installed in your house and thing are functioning (better)
  • Option 2 is that the garage transceiver is receiving the RF and is effectively bridging your powerline phases

Have you tried operating with one transceiver - if so what were the results?  While your original post indicated you might have phase coupling problems, it's very difficult to determine when you have two transceivers (on the same housecode) that may be causing collisions.

I'd hate to advise that you buy more hardware if it's not necessary.

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mabergin

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 08:57:05 AM »

Both transceivers are about equal distance from sensor.I tried with one transceiver in living room ..lights would only come on in living room.When I moved it to garage only the garage lights would come on.I guess I will leave it this way for awhile.Thanks alot for all of your help.
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Boiler

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Re: Help with setup
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 09:32:16 AM »

Both transceivers are about equal distance from sensor.I tried with one transceiver in living room ..lights would only come on in living room.When I moved it to garage only the garage lights would come on.I guess I will leave it this way for awhile.Thanks alot for all of your help.

From the above, I'd say we're back to having a phase issue.  From the description of your house and X10 installation, a passive coupler should suffice.  The following link has a nice list of available "passive couplers" :


A wired in device is typically the best option since it places the coupler right at your electrical panel. 

You mentioned you had a 220V dryer - Smarthome makes a number of plug-in couplers (plug the coupler in the outlet, your appliance then plugs into the coupler).  Not quite as good as the wired in devices (due to the line length back to your electrical panel) but extremely user friendly.

Please update us as things progress.


[TTA Edit: Added description to LINK.]
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 01:49:16 PM by TakeTheActive »
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