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Author Topic: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?  (Read 260579 times)

TakeTheActive

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2007, 12:20:07 PM »


...My results are available at:   http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_LM465.txt

  • Manually converted from (?Linux?) .TXT to simple .HTML to allow automatic 'on-the-fly' width reformatting to screen and/or paper size.

  • Added several revisions to improve clarity, IMO.

For your approval: New_LM465.Html
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nklght

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2007, 03:29:33 AM »

Basically,
this new version will keep the light on and waste energy, even though I think it has been shut off.
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Boiler

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2007, 03:58:58 AM »

Basically,
this new version will keep the light on and waste energy, even though I think it has been shut off.
nklght,
I believe you may have misread Charles' post:

At minimun dim level the modules still consume ~ 15% power (consistent with other X10 units).

In the off condition the units consume minimal power (X10 signal monitoring - numbers that I've seen posted are around 1 watt).

These really are nice changes to the modules.  If X10 had re-identified them (LM465-2) they could be promoting them as "new", "improved", "leviton equivalent" modules.  As it is, without changes to AHP and with no way of identifying the units, they're a marketing nightmare.

The old LM465 had a resonable chance of working with a CFL (depending on the brand).  Use of a "soft start" lamp module with a CFL can result in serious problems.

Boiler

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Brian H

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2007, 04:21:42 PM »

As a reference. I just got an LM456 Date Code:07G27 and it does not soft start. Acts like the older ones we have known for years.
Maybe leftover stuff from Radio Shack discontinuing the line; though it is in an X10 case. Was part of the deal that included the TM12A Mini-Timer that sure look like the one RS use to carry. LCD display and all.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2007, 05:18:10 PM »

As a reference. I just got an LM456 Date Code:07G27 and it does not soft start. Acts like the older ones we have known for years.
Maybe leftover stuff from Radio Shack discontinuing the line; though it is in an X10 case. Was part of the deal that included the TM12A Mini-Timer that sure look like the one RS use to carry. LCD display and all.


Hmm... Yours would appear to be a later date code than my 07D17 "Soft Start" units.   The question now is whether X-10 is mixing old and new product or have they re-revised the firmware to return to the original LM465 characteristics?

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Boiler

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2007, 07:23:52 PM »

As a reference. I just got an LM456 Date Code:07G27 and it does not soft start. Acts like the older ones we have known for years.
Maybe leftover stuff from Radio Shack discontinuing the line; though it is in an X10 case. Was part of the deal that included the TM12A Mini-Timer that sure look like the one RS use to carry. LCD display and all.

Brian H,
In a word - WOW. 

If X10 were to "REV" the new modules, the last "feature" that I would have guessed would be eliminated would be the "Soft Start".

Although this could have presented a safety hazard if the unit were used with CFL's or low voltage lighting, I would have thought that X10 would have stood behind it's disclaimers.

I'm more than a bit concerned that X10 is now mixing old and new stock with the same Date Codes.  This would leave us with no way of tracking changes.

Could I impose on you to test some of the new functions reported by Charles to determine whether this is an old/new unit or a revision?

{Edit by Boiler (SSE) - Stupid Spelling Errors}
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 09:36:36 PM by Boiler »
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Brian H

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2007, 09:15:10 AM »

Sure can. I just reprinted his data as it was revised and will compare it.
Will also open it and look at the IC and Part Numbers.
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Brian H

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2007, 10:45:47 AM »

Have two DC 07G27. Both act the same.
On or Off: No ramp fast on or off.
Dim; if off; goes to 100% fast; then down from there.
Dimmed to 50%; then off. Then back on; full on
All Lights ON: responds
All Lights Off: Does not respond
All Units Off: Responds.
I don't have a way to do X10 Extended; so that I could not test.

                           Date Code:  07G27                                                                         Date Code: 02F23
   IC                     H78561                                                                                         F78651
                           45713571    0614 [maybe date code]                                               70196019     0131
   PCB:                  H10004A                                                                                       H10004
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Boiler

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2007, 11:44:54 AM »

Brian H,
First and foremost - Thank you for the information.

Second - Very confusing.

Have two DC 07G27. Both act the same.
On or Off: No ramp fast on or off.
Dim; if off; goes to 100% fast; then down from there.
Dimmed to 50%; then off. Then back on; full on
All Lights ON: responds
All Lights Off: Does not respond
All Units Off: Responds.
I don't have a way to do X10 Extended; so that I could not test.

                           Date Code:  07G27                                                                         Date Code: 02F23
   IC                     H78561                                                                                         F78651
                           45713571    0614 [maybe date code]                                               70196019     0131
   PCB:                  H10004A                                                                                       H10004


Your unit sure behaves like an "old" LM465.  I believe the H78561 refers to the firmware with the "H" being the revision.  Pretty difficult for two different PIC's to share the same firmware.

I looks like X10 has found a supply of "original" LM465's and is shipping those in lieu of the new hardware.  Maybe this was all just a "mistake" at the factory?

Boiler
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2007, 11:49:10 AM »

Have two DC 07G27. Both act the same.
On or Off: No ramp fast on or off.
Dim; if off; goes to 100% fast; then down from there.
Dimmed to 50%; then off. Then back on; full on
All Lights ON: responds
All Lights Off: Does not respond
All Units Off: Responds.
I don't have a way to do X10 Extended; so that I could not test.

                           Date Code:  07G27                                                                         Date Code: 02F23
   IC                     H78561                                                                                         F78651
                           45713571    0614 [maybe date code]                                               70196019     0131
   PCB:                  H10004A                                                                                       H10004


Those are the characteristics of the original LM465.  If you've got AHP running, you can drag in the icon for the LM14A; then running the brightness slider up and down will send extended code preset commands, but I doubt you'll see any response from the module.

Comparing the redesign LM465 (date code 07D17) with an original LM465 (date code 04D15), the major difference I see is that the controller chip on the redesign is a much smaller surface mount chip on the bottom side of the board, whereas the original has a DIP chip on the top side with the rest of the components.  The original PCB is marked H10004A A (the second A is smaller).  The DIP is marked H78561 / 21061106  0344.

Based on what you've seen and the location of the controller chip, it appears X-10 is mixing old and new product.

Good show X-10!!!  Now you've really screwed up the works!

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Brian H

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2007, 11:57:16 AM »

Yes.  The controller chip is a through hole dip type and not surface mounted.
Now that you mention it there was a real small A after the larger one.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2007, 01:23:20 PM »

OK, how do we tell which LM465 we have without opening the case?

I have 5 unused LM465's, all have a small round sticker on the back on the lower right corner.  2 have code 07A01, 2 have code 04L51 and 1 has code 05E19.

Are any the  Latest Version of the LM465?
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2007, 01:25:03 PM »

Your unit sure behaves like an "old" LM465.  I believe the H78561 refers to the firmware with the "H" being the revision.  Pretty difficult for two different PIC's to share the same firmware.

I'm pretty sure H78561 is the part number, at least a Google search shows a number of hits for sources of obsolete parts with that number.

Quote
I looks like X10 has found a supply of "original" LM465's and is shipping those in lieu of the new hardware.  Maybe this was all just a "mistake" at the factory?

There may be more than one factory, each with its own inventory.   In any event, X-10 never throws anything away - you'll  find instruction sheets for long obsolete versions of a product packed with new versions.  In fact the lack of a distinguishing part number for the redesigned LM467 may be due only to an X-10 policy of using up the stock of old labels before printing new ones.  :)

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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2007, 01:38:30 PM »

OK, how do we tell which LM465 we have without opening the case?

I have 5 unused LM465's, all have a small round sticker on the back on the lower right corner.  2 have code 07A01, 2 have code 04L51 and 1 has code 05E19.

Are any the  Latest Version of the LM465?


Open a new room in AHP and drag in a LM14A icon set to the same address as your module.   Drag the brightness slider on the icon up a ways, then down a ways.  If the lamp responds, it's a redesigned unit, otherwise it's an old one.  (The Activity Monitor should show the Extended Codes being sent when you twiddle the slider.)

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Brian H

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Re: Latest Version of the LM465 Now Has "SoftStart"?!?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2007, 07:55:48 PM »

Charles's method sounds like great way to check for new features. If you don't have AHP you maybe able to try turning it on and off. If it ramps up and down at about 2 seconds it has soft start. If it goes quickly on and off it does not..
Guess we now have to think of a few questions to ask when a LM465 problem shows up. To determine if it has soft start and the new features as date code isn't going to be 100%; as we now know.
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