Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The X10Hub (PiX10Hub) is here! Created by the Community, for the Community.:)% #:)

Author Topic: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem  (Read 16976 times)

arpy

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 2
PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« on: August 03, 2007, 10:22:37 PM »

I'm new to X10 and I don't have all the filters, meters etc.  I'm really sounding out the technology to see if it's worthwhile getting more involved with it.

In doing basic forum research I understand that the powerhorns require an alternating on/off signal from the alarm panel to work, I understand potential home wiring phase problems etc.  I understand the Simon 3's pecularity where the powerhorn's house code is to be set one letter higher than the panel's housecode.  I am assuming that the alarm panel is working 100% but it's difficult to test.  I still have problems with X10 devices and the Simon 3 panel:

1) I cannot get the powerhorn to work, even when plugged into the SAME receptacle as the line signal transformer (it's not a dual fed kitchen receptacle).  I can get my X10 appliance module to turn on and off on more far flung receptacles so I know the panel/transformer is sending some signals.  Even if there are "signal suckers" and "noise generators" on my house circuits, should the powerhorn activate when plugged into the SAME receptacle as the line signal transformer or can these suckers/generators on far removed circuits even kill the signal with this test?  I tried switching the powerhorn to the same codes as the functioning appliance module and manually sending on/off signals to activate it but I can't switch on/off fast enough with the panel buttons (i.e. likely about 1.5 seconds per switching).

2) Why would the appliance module work and the powerhorn not work? (unless the PH is faulty or the panel isn't sending the proper alarm signal)

3) The "all lights on" function won't work with the appliance module.  The "all lights off" does work however.  How is the "all lights on" signal different than an individual "light #2 on" signal (e.g. weaker strength?  more likely to be interfered with?)

Thanks for your insights.
Logged

-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 81
  • Posts: 1340
  • He's just this guy. You know?
    • wgjohns.com
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2007, 11:22:37 PM »

I can't speak to the other problems, but as to:
3) The "all lights on" function won't work with the appliance module.  The "all lights off" does work however.  How is the "all lights on" signal different than an individual "light #2 on" signal (e.g. weaker strength?  more likely to be interfered with?)
Appliance modules do not respond to "all lights on" and as far as I know, there is no such thing as "all lights off"... it is "all units off".
"All lights on" only triggers lamp modules.  "All units off" triggers all modules.

I hope that is somewhat helpful.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 08:33:50 PM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
Logged
-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)
bill@wgjohns.com

In the real world, the only constant is change.

When I'm online you can find me in the Home Automation Chat Room!

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12703
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 06:46:04 AM »

The PH508 is touchy to timing of the signals. My Advanced Signal tests with my 1132CU Interface. Shows that 1 second cycles worked fine; while 2 seconds was sporadic or not triggered. The PH508 will trigger with an alternating On Off on its address like B2 on B2 off, or an alternating B All Lights On;B All Units Off on the house code. All Lights Off also can be used for the off code. Yes Bill; All Lights Off is a code though I hardly ever see it used.

1) In the same outlet as a working Appliance module or the same outlet as the X10/Simon Transformer should have plenty of signal to activate the PH508 even if there was noise or low signals at the normally installed outlet. It could be a timing thing.

2) Signal timing or maybe what code is being sent. I do know that the PH508 will NOT work with a Radio Shack 49-1000 Security Panel; even though it was an OEM from X10. Seems that unit sends two address alternately. The House/Unit code it is set to and the House/ Unit+1 Code. Like B1 and B2. B1 On B2 On then B1 Off B2 Off. The extra address messes up the PH508s timing and it may chirp or do nothing with a 49-1000. If you have a Lamp Module you could try it and see if it does activate.

3) Yes Appliance modules will not go on with a All Lights On command. Safety so to speak. You would not want an All Lights On to turn on your empty coffee pot on an Appliance Module.
There is a difference in signals sent for an All? command. Like a B2 address. To turn it on; you send a B2 address; to make the addressed module listen for the next command. Then the B on signal to turn the addressed module on. An all type command the module does not have to be addressed first. Just send a B All Lights On and all House Code B Lamp devices [wall switches or modules] will turn on. All B house Code devices will turn of with a B All Units Off command.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 06:47:35 AM by Brian H »
Logged

Charles Sullivan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 93
  • Posts: 1565
    • HEYU - X10 Automation for Linux, Unix, and Mac OSX
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 08:16:24 AM »

Appliance modules do not respond to "all lights on" and as far as I know, there is no such thing as "all lights off"... it is "all units off".
"All lights on" only triggers lamp modules.  "All units off" triggers all modules.


Bill:
There is an All_Lights_Off signal (X10 function code 6).  It's never been implemented in any of X-10's remotes or standard software, probably because the older LM465  plug-in lamp module (and its predecessors) does not support it.   The WS467, LM14A, redesigned LM465, and lamp dimmers from most other manufacturers do support this signal.  The signal can be sent with the AHP SDK and with many 3rd-party programs.

Logged
Yesterday it worked.
Today it doesn't work.
X10 on Windows is like that.

HEYU - X10 Automation for Linux, Unix, and Mac OS X     http://www.heyu.org

arpy

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 2
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 12:11:09 PM »

Thanks guys.  This clarifies the behaviour of the appliance module.   I had believed that the appliance module was just a heavy-duty light module... not so.

Although the manual suggest differently, the Simon 3 panel must have an "all lights on" command and "all units off".  This won't turn on the appliance module by design but will turn it off (as I observed).

I tried testing the powerhorn by manually cycling the "all lights on/all units off" on the same house code as the panel but nary a chirp (I could cycle this at about 1 second intervals).  If the powerhorn responds to "light" signals, this test should have activated it.  I will return it and try another one.

Just a comment that the X10 product descriptions available are nearly useless.  These technical forums save the day!
Logged

-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 81
  • Posts: 1340
  • He's just this guy. You know?
    • wgjohns.com
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 08:32:09 PM »

Thanks for the correction guys!

I had never heard of an "All Lights Off" command.   ???

Probably because as stated above it was never generally implemented in X10's modules and software.

Live and learn!   ;D
Logged
-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)
bill@wgjohns.com

In the real world, the only constant is change.

When I'm online you can find me in the Home Automation Chat Room!

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12703
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2007, 07:08:36 AM »

Well it is in some as Charles said. I did a few tests after seeing the post.
All Lights Off did not work with LM465;PLM01;SL575 and B&D FWLR.
Did work with LM15A;LM14A;WS12A;WS467A;XPS3-IW and Smarthomes 2000SHL;2456D3.
Good reason not to have a remote button for that function. Many would not respond.
Logged

interrupteur1

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 4
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 08:08:10 AM »

Hello i have the same problem for lm15a and lm465 this is true that lm15a respond to alllightson and off but lm465 only respond to alllightson but advertizing claim they both do .
did ytou find any way to get around this problem
thanks
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12703
Re: PH508 Powerhorn with Simon 3 Panel - Diagnosing the problem
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 09:55:17 AM »

How new are the LM465 Modules?

I just got some new soft start ones [Date Code 09J44] and they act differently than even a one year old soft start one. Date Code 08A01
The latest ones go on and off instantly with an All Lights On and a All Units Off or All Lights Off to the modules House Code.
I also noticed that the one second On and Off cycle on the LM465s address [House and Unit Code] would also go instantly on and off after one complete cycle of on and off commands. I believe the security consoles use the on off cycle to flash the lights and that the older soft start modules had a issue with this.

The older LM465 Lamp Modules before Soft Start was incorporated. Do not follow an All Lights Off command. Only the All Lights On and All Units Off commands.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 10:50:34 AM by Brian H »
Logged
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.