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Author Topic: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?  (Read 31898 times)

GeoDosch

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My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« on: August 22, 2007, 11:08:53 AM »

I've had a CP290 for years, and the other day it bit the dust after an electrical storm (it was purposely not on a surge suppressor, since that blocked the signals.)  I've been researching the CM11A, trying to determine its compatibility with the CP290.  While I've found nothing that specifically compares the two, its apparent that the CM11A uses different controller software. 

My question is, would the CM11A be backwards-compatible with the CP290?  This would fall into two categories:

  • Storing schedules in the unit
  • Responding to 'instant' commands

I've developed software for the CP290, and would not want to lose the functionality I currently use it for.

TIA
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Walt2

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 12:01:33 PM »

The CP290, the CM11A, the CM14A, and the current CM15A are all interface unique, and have their own independent software.

I can assure you, though, that the CM15A software, ActiveHome Pro, can easily do things like "Storing schedules in the unit" and "Responding to 'instant' commands".  It has come a long way from the CP290 and, was it, Lighthouse software?

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GeoDosch

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 12:25:51 PM »

I can assure you, though, that the CM15A software, ActiveHome Pro, can easily do things like "Storing schedules in the unit" and "Responding to 'instant' commands".  It has come a long way from the CP290 and, was it, Lighthouse software?
Walt,

Thanks for the quick reply.  However, my concern wasn't whether the new units had the ability to store schedules or respond to instant commands, but whether they would do those functions in response to CP290-protocol commands.

I've never used Lighthouse software; the software I'm using was developed by myself, and perform some functions which I doubt are available elsewhere, such as adjusting the timing of an event based upon weather conditions and outside temperature.

There is no doubt that the new interfaces have hardware capabilities well beyond my ancient CP290, and that the software specifically created for them will make use of those features.  But it does not preclude the possibility that they would also respond to CP290-style commands, which is what I'm trying to find out.
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Walt2

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 12:30:09 PM »

But it does not preclude the possibility that they would also respond to CP290-style commands, which is what I'm trying to find out.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

No.
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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 11:20:33 PM »

GeoDosch,

If you can't find a CP290, the SDK for AHP and the CM15A is a good starting point for re-writing your software.

I know from experience this is a P.I.T.A., but time marches on, and technology "advances".

If you choose to go that route, I (for one) am willing try to help you sort it out.

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TakeTheActive

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 05:47:28 AM »


...My question is, would the CM11A be backwards-compatible with the CP290?

...I've developed software for the CP290, and would not want to lose the functionality I currently use it for.

AFAIK, *NOTHING* in X10 Computer Controller World is "compatible" (unless you drop down to the lowest level - i.e. sending HEX COMMANDS). But, if you were knowledgeable enough to write your own software for the CP290, I'm confident that you could re-write it for another X10 Computer Controller.

If your CP290 has satisfied your needs for all these years *AND* if you have a PC capable of communicating with a Serial Port (DUH! ;) ), personally, IMHO (backed by almost 3 decades of X10 experience), I see no reason to subject yourself to the potential grief and heartache from upgrading to a CM15A/AHP. Pick up a CM11A (or RCA HC60CRX) for ~$10, SEARCH the forums for Keywords: CM11A, HeYu UserID: Charles Sullivan and work forward from there.

Charles is INTIMATELY familiar with the HEX COMMANDS that control the CM11A. So, once you convert your old CP290 routines to "pseudo-code", it will be a piece-of-cake to get them running again under the CM11A.
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 11:42:40 AM »


...My question is, would the CM11A be backwards-compatible with the CP290?

...I've developed software for the CP290, and would not want to lose the functionality I currently use it for.

AFAIK, *NOTHING* in X10 Computer Controller World is "compatible" (unless you drop down to the lowest level - i.e. sending HEX COMMANDS). But, if you were knowledgeable enough to write your own software for the CP290, I'm confident that you could re-write it for another X10 Computer Controller.

If your CP290 has satisfied your needs for all these years *AND* if you have a PC capable of communicating with a Serial Port (DUH! ;) ), personally, IMHO (backed by almost 3 decades of X10 experience), I see no reason to subject yourself to the potential grief and heartache from upgrading to a CM15A/AHP. Pick up a CM11A (or RCA HC60CRX) for ~$10, SEARCH the forums for Keywords: CM11A, HeYu UserID: Charles Sullivan and work forward from there.

Charles is INTIMATELY familiar with the HEX COMMANDS that control the CM11A. So, once you convert your old CP290 routines to "pseudo-code", it will be a piece-of-cake to get them running again under the CM11A.

Unfortunately that's not quite the case.  Software for  communication with the CM11A is probably an order of magnitude more complex than that for the CP290.

The CM11A has the capability of sending X10 commands from its EEPROM memory based on timers or received X10 trigger signals.

However there are only a few programs I know of which are able to load a schedule into the CM11A EEPROM:
For the Windows platform, X-10's ActiveHome 1.42 (free download) and Zeus (shareware - 30 day free trial - http://www.zeushome.com).
For Linux/Unix/Mac OSX there's of course Heyu (free - http://www.heyu.org), which will probably do all that the OP wants and more.

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JeffVolp

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 11:52:56 AM »

Quote
the software I'm using was developed by myself, and perform some functions which I doubt are available elsewhere, such as adjusting the timing of an event based upon weather conditions and outside temperature.

The Ocelot will do that.  Using the SECU16 expansion module, it can monitor real-world parameters, and take action based upon them.  I use both temperatures and time of year to control auxiliary ventilation and adjust the irrigation cycles.  Temperature is measured with inexpensive thermistors.  The Ocelot performs the calculation to convert that reading to degrees F.

While I haven't used them myself, I would expect that other high end controllers from JDS and Elk have similar capability.

Jeff
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TakeTheActive

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 03:13:19 PM »


...My question is, would the CM11A be backwards-compatible with the CP290?

...I've developed software for the CP290, and would not want to lose the functionality I currently use it for.

Charles is INTIMATELY familiar with the HEX COMMANDS that control the CM11A. So, once you convert your old CP290 routines to "pseudo-code", it will be a piece-of-cake to get them running again under the CM11A.

Unfortunately that's not quite the case.  Software for  communication with the CM11A is probably an order of magnitude more complex than that for the CP290...

Having never used a CP290, I can only go by what I've read about it in the past. Comparing the CP290 with the CM11A and the CM15A, I'd say something like:

  • CP290: TW513 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer
     - it can store timed events

  • CM11A: TW523 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM11A
     - it can react to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events

  • CM15A: TW523 & RR501 with memory and a USB port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM15A
     - it can react, with conditionals, to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events


...The CM11A has the capability of sending X10 commands from its EEPROM memory based on timers or received X10 trigger signals.

Thus, shouldn't the CM11A, at a minimum, be able to duplicate whatever the CP290 was capable of doing, besides having the ability to "hear" X10 PLC and execute macros in addition to timed events?


...However there are only a few programs I know of which are able to load a schedule into the CM11A EEPROM:

My interpretation is that AH v1.42 can load GeoDosch's timed events into the CM11A's memory. His "project" will then be to re-code his "pseudo-code" into a language that can both read his current computer sensors and send "Command Line" Hex Commands to the Serial Port for the CM11A to react.
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TakeTheActive

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 04:16:02 PM »


The Ocelot will do that...

Years ago I investigated the Ocelot and the Stargate. I read all of their literature and visited support forums and read archived posts for days and days. Eventually, I decided the cost-benefit ratio didn't meet my needs and I stuck with my CM11A.

Before the CM11A, I used a TW523 on a dedicated IBM XT with a Votrax RS232 Speech Synthesizer Box, running a GWBasic program that I coded myself, based on descriptions of subroutines from a package that a company was selling (pretty neat, I told myself - it was just like work; I was given specs and I produced code. ;) )

My impression of GeoDosch, from his 2 posts, is that he too is a "Tinkerer". Who else would write and still be running custom code on a CP290? Yes, the Ocelot and the Stargate *WILL* do what he wants, but also at great expense. The last I looked, the Ocelot was running ~$150 and the Stargate ~$600 (but don't trust my creaky memory). If a $10 investment for a CM11A (or RCA HC60CRX), followed by many (pleasurable?) hours of coding, will allow him to re-create his CP290 environment, I'd bet that that's the direction he'll go.

We'll see when/if he returns and replies... :)
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JeffVolp

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 05:17:43 PM »

Quote
Years ago I investigated the Ocelot and the Stargate. I read all of their literature and visited support forums and read archived posts for days and days. Eventually, I decided the cost-benefit ratio didn't meet my needs and I stuck with my CM11A.

Interesting...  Having used the Ocelot, I could never back down to the CM11A.  Well, it was great for turning on my coffeepot before I got to work in the morning.  The CM15A could be a good unit if it didn't have so many bugs, and that awful GUI must have been designed by the video game generation.  It's also kind of hard to measure temperature, soil moisture, and other real-world parameters with any of the X10 controllers.  The Stargate is a terrific unit, but it is expensive.  The Ocelot is getting pretty old now, and we'll have to see what the next ADI product looks like.

You know my goal is reliability.  I can't accept anything that even has to be re-booted a few times a year to keep it going.  The Ocelot is an industrial quality unit that runs 24/7 unattended.  The only time I plug the cable in is when I want to change something or test a XTB-II.

Jeff
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 09:52:56 PM »


...My question is, would the CM11A be backwards-compatible with the CP290?

...I've developed software for the CP290, and would not want to lose the functionality I currently use it for.

Charles is INTIMATELY familiar with the HEX COMMANDS that control the CM11A. So, once you convert your old CP290 routines to "pseudo-code", it will be a piece-of-cake to get them running again under the CM11A.

Unfortunately that's not quite the case.  Software for communication with the CM11A is probably an order of magnitude more complex than that for the CP290...

Whoops, I think I misunderstood your statement.  Programming the CM11A is simple enough and it can do everything the CP290 can do, and more.  But writing software to communicate with the CM11A is more difficult.

Quote
Having never used a CP290, I can only go by what I've read about it in the past. Comparing the CP290 with the CM11A and the CM15A, I'd say something like:

  • CP290: TW513 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer
     - it can store timed events
[/size]

Correct!

Quote
  • CM11A: TW523 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM11A
     - it can react to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events
[/size]

Correct, provided X10 sensor conditions are implied.

Quote
  • CM15A: TW523 & RR501 with memory and a USB port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM15A
     - it can react, with conditionals, to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events
[/size]

Again correct, as above.  And RF commands can be sent and received.

Quote


...The CM11A has the capability of sending X10 commands from its EEPROM memory based on timers or received X10 trigger signals.

Thus, shouldn't the CM11A, at a minimum, be able to duplicate whatever the CP290 was capable of doing, besides having the ability to "hear" X10 PLC and execute macros in addition to timed events?

Yes.

Quote

...However there are only a few programs I know of which are able to load a schedule into the CM11A EEPROM:

My interpretation is that AH v1.42 can load GeoDosch's timed events into the CM11A's memory. His "project" will then be to re-code his "pseudo-code" into a language that can both read his current computer sensors and send "Command Line" Hex Commands to the Serial Port for the CM11A to react.

That's probably true.  There's a command line interface which comes with ActiveHome 1.42 but I don't know how well it works, especially with Windows XP.


[TTA Edit: Re-formatted - matched unmatched {LIST}, added {SIZE} parameters.]
« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 11:24:35 PM by TakeTheActive »
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Walt2

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2007, 08:52:00 PM »

  • CP290: TW513 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer
     - it can store timed events

  • CM11A: TW523 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM11A
     - it can react to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events

  • CM15A: TW523 & RR501 with memory and a USB port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM15A
     - it can react, with conditionals, to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events


I wonder where the CM14A would fit in??
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TakeTheActive

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2007, 11:03:25 PM »

  • CP290: TW513 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer
     - it can store timed events

  • CM11A: TW523 with memory and a serial port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM11A
     - it can react to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events

  • CM15A: TW523 & RR501 with memory and a USB port
     - a computer can send it real-time commands on what to do based on conditions sensed by the computer or the CM15A
     - it can react, with conditionals, to sensor conditions sensed by itself
     - it can store timed events
[/size]

I wonder where the CM14A would fit in??

Send me your's and I'll let you know...
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JeffVolp

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Re: My CP290 Died - Would the CM11A be Backwards-Compatible?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 09:38:35 AM »

The CM14A was similar to the CM15A, but it has a serial port like the CM11A.
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