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Author Topic: Keep them outside - better than a sign  (Read 95794 times)

HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2007, 09:48:11 AM »

Thanks for the input! Actually the garage-backyard door is protected with a DS10A.

The only problem with the DS10A... or the DS7000 for that matter... is in MOST cases it REQUIRES someone (like an intruder) to break a door or window to trigger the alarm.

Every report I've read about says "the alarm scared the intruder away" . That's a GOOD THING.


A co-workers home was recently broken into. Three kids skipping school walked right past the (blue stop-sign shaped) security warning sign, kicked open a door, and set off the alarm. The kids then ran off - and got caught down the street by the police. So very typical.

What I think, is often forgotten: The family no longer feels "as safe" in their own home. And the "intruders" are kids from down the street. Even in the best case "scared away" scenario..... this is still very sad. As a parent... I know one of those kids could have been mine. As a home-owner... I know who would be fixing the door. As a husband... I know who would be hearing about the.... (I won't go there).

Although every home security [tips] report I've read say the signs do help the "bad guy beware - security alarm waring sign" just isn't good enough (IMHO).

I have already installed a night-time outside voice message that warns intruders, which can be seen and heard on my YouTube video from my Web Page. I think I can add a similar setup to the stormdoors, with a short message saying "warning: this home is security alarm protected". With motion sensors on the inside disabling the voice alert macro. This would happen automatically (I like automated) with no setting an alarm system.






« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 12:16:33 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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steven r

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2007, 02:25:49 PM »

...The only problem with the DS10A... or the DS7000 for that matter... [or just about every alarm for that matter] is in MOST cases it REQUIRES someone (like an intruder) to break a door or window to trigger the alarm.

Every report I've read about says "the alarm scared the intruder away" . That's a GOOD THING....
That's why I think your storm door approach is so good. It's good, cheap, and effective. It's also one of the reasons I invested in the Strikemaster II that I read about somewhere else on the forum. Now no one can kick in my doors. Maybe I could wire a get a shock sensor to a siren in case anyone jars the door while trying.
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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2007, 03:13:17 PM »


Just remember that (currently) even an un-transceived House Code's RF signal can still trigger a macro; so signal collisions can still occur but within the CM15A's processor.

On one of my 2 CM15A's I installed a flip switch for de-activating the RF Receiver for experiment purposes.


Thanks Puck,

I wanted to ask about a possible RF conflict between the CM15a and the V572 but didn't feel I was well enough versed on the security protocol (old dogs and all that).

Short of manually disconnecting the CM15a antenna, how does one avoid intermittent conflicts?

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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2007, 03:48:52 PM »

Even a light on the security sign would have to be a help.
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ur2slo

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2007, 06:02:17 AM »

Instead of a recording of someone talking about the security features you should just record a shotgun racking and have the recording say "who the heck is in my yard!  That will make just about anyone run.   ;D
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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2008, 09:41:26 AM »

I just finished a series of posts (and a PM) about the DS7000 security alarm... at least that is sorta what it was about. It is what the original post/question was about.

I am coming to the conclusion... that besides darn-good doors, windows and locks... security cameras may very well be the obvious and easiest preventive measure to deter a break-in.

I have read that the security alarm warning stickers... by themselves... reduce the chance of a break-in by 300-400 percent.

Going by the reports in my local area: A couple summers ago 54 homes were broken into by a gang of two.. none of the 54 homes had any sort of alarm (or stickers or yard signs?). Yet just months ago.. there was a brief rash of break-ins of wealthy home owners. They had alarm systems more often than not, and would awake in the mornings with the phone lines cut.... and the homes robbed.

I have yet to hear of a home with video monitoring.. in my area.. being robbed.   
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Vigilant1

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2008, 11:05:51 PM »

Dave,
  I enjoyed your site and the video of BVC in use.  Thanks for that and for all the help you give people here.
  The only thing I can suggest as far as warning potential burglars off before they get in--would there be any potential advantage to a strobe light (i.e xenon flash tube) to complement your audio warning.  Add to the audio a reference to use of "low-light cameras and flash-illuminated evidence collection."  Maybe they'll believe it, maybe they won't but a strobe activating every 30 seconds or so during the time the sensor detects motion might be useful in re-enforcing the idea that photos are being taken.  In addition:
  -- It communicates the idea of photo-evidence collection to prospective intruders who may not speak English
  -- Upon detection of an actual intrusion, the xenon lamp could flash more rapidly, say every few seconds, to augment the siren/horn and the flashing lamps.  Table-lamps and yard lights are great, but a 100,000 candlepower Xenon lamp is a whole 'nother league.
  -- Smart bad-guys know that low-light level video is never in color and is often of poor quality.  Images illuminated by a flash can be in color and can be high-def (though there will be no motion) 
 
BTW, one other thing I like about the cameras (low light or flash-augmented):  It might stop a future burglary/intrusion.  If the intruder thinks he's been caught on tape on Monday, he probably won't break into that house on Friday even if the alarm isn't working (or he can defeat it).  If he believes that homeowner has his picture, I'd guess he'll pick another target.

OTOH, I don't know what the neighbors will think about the occasional light flashes prompted by foraging raccoons.
   
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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2008, 03:09:38 AM »

Vigilant1 thanks for the responce and your ideas!!!



Add to the audio a reference to use of "low-light cameras and flash-illuminated evidence collection."  Maybe they'll believe it


Someone else suggested the same thing! So I added a (device manager) change within my BVC... and now the message reports "Night Vision Camera is ON". And.. actually it's ALL TRUE! I have and use several cameras.. one anyone can spot, another if you look for it, and the rest are somewhat hidden. The action is both video taped and emailed for off site collection and monitoring.


..... but a strobe activating every 30 seconds or so during the time the sensor detects motion might be useful in re-enforcing the idea that photos are being taken. 

............. I don't know what the neighbors will think about the occasional light flashes prompted by foraging raccoons.
   

I have considered strobes... but hadn't thought of triggering them with motion. I was thinking of putting strobes between the storm and regular doors, as the storm doors are also alarm wired. Using strobes is a great idea! Thank-you again.

I use several floodlights around my home... MORE than I exposed in the YouTube Video (actually.. some staging was done for the video as to NOT give-away locations) I made (that part of) the video at night, because I thought the lights would be more effective... than just a voice announcement. I could easily mow, play ball or garden from the motion activated lights in my yard... no neighbor (or they're dogs) can miss the lights. The neighbors can also hear the voice announcement. I have also increased my perimeter alarm system, I like the idea of layers of warnings/protection.

Many X10 users get daily emails of the mail delivery person... or anyone else that "stops-by" when no one is home. I am doing nothing new with that. Of course... most robberies are done by kids skipping school.. in the morning or day-time hours. So... I've been looking for more day-time deterrents. I don't want to catch a neighborhood kid (on video) doing something unlawful. I am trying to deter someone from doing unlawful things... at my home.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 12:12:29 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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dahur

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2008, 11:07:40 AM »

If I were a burgler, and knew there were cameras, but I was determined to get in, I would just put on a disguise or a mask. (and probably only attempt it at night. I would also assume the cameras had IR capability)
However, if I heard the sound of a door opening somewhere, and then what sounded like a pack of vicious dogs coming towards me from around the back of the house, I'm quite sure I would bolt.
 If I did get inside,(and tripped a motion sensor), I know I wouldn't want to hear what sounded like someone calling 911, and the police answering.

Just a couple things I've thought about doing myself.



« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 09:42:31 PM by dahur »
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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2008, 01:15:59 PM »


If I were a burgler, and knew there were cameras, but I was determined to get in, I would just put on a disguise or a mask.


Yep... pulling down a ski mask can defeat cameras! Thank God I live in an old-fashion neighborhood. Even on a very cold day... like today.. hanging around the neighborhood in a ski mask will get peoples attention. Hanging around any particular home... and the police will be called.

There are so many variables involved... no two homes are the same. In more rural areas, with greater distances between homes and slower police responce times, a ski mask could un-do a lot of preventive deterrent. Maybe a driveway camera for license plate number collection might be helpful. Of course, a sign and/or announcement would be needed to notify the intruder.

However, if I heard the sound of a door opening somewhere, and then what sounded like a pack of vicious dogs coming towards me from around the back of the house, I'm quite sure I would bolt.


So far... I have been up-front honest... even sorta in-your-face-bold with my detection and deterrent systems. Why would anyone take any extra risk at my home.. when a street or two away.. they can easily find an un-alarmed, non-video monitored home, with an easy to jimmie back door.


.....If I did get inside,(and tripped a motion sensor), I know I wouldn't want to hear what sounded like someone calling 911, and the police answering.


I like that idea! I have tried to interface the alarm with a BVC announcement that would repeat (over and over) that:  "authorities have been notified, police have been dispatched". I haven't got that all worked out yet. Part of the problem is getting enough volume to make my announcement heard over the noise created by the sirens. I also need the OnAlert plug-in. I have also thought about using the alarm system to also trigger the doorbell and/or a phone ringer.. to add to the noise.

But if someone does get inside... I have failed on several levels.

  • The neighborhood failed.. we actively watch out for each other.
  • My perimeter detection failed to alert me... or I failed to act.
  • My signs, stickers, cameras, and verbal announcement system failed to warn or deter the intruder.
  • My locks and re-enforcements on doors and windows failed to delay the intruder until the police arrived.

I think... if I can put enough reliable detection and deterrent systems ahead of entering my home... even a determinded intruder may be kept outside. I may have already done enough.. I have a couple good systems... and a couple back-ups.

But there should be more options. More.. or other.. systems/methods/ways to keep intruders outside. All of my set-up was designed around and for my home. What about X10 users who do live in more rural areas, or areas with slower police responce times? Or how does a user set-up a perimeter detection system if they live in an apartment... where the only entry may be in a shared hallway?

« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 02:03:47 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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tom j

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2008, 09:00:14 PM »

I just created/installed a perimiter motion detection system with a (inside and) OUTSIDE voice warning. Nightime visitors to my backyard will be greeted with a voice announcement saying: "Warning. Activity has been detected in the backyard. This is a restricted area. Leave now. Activity will be off-site video monitored. The nightvision camera is on".

Recently thanks to a great post from RCaddict's about his DIY MP3 powered replacement for a RoboDog. And a little good natured ribbing from TTA and dave w, Dave shared with me his (former) use of a perimiter detection and voice warning system.

Everyone that reads the forums regularly knows I am not only a big X10 fan... I am a big fan of BVC. Well I already had Kate (via BVC) telling me when there was activity in the backyard. That was easy enough to do using a BVC listener. When BVC would hear the X10 signal (that turns ON the the camera system that monitors the backyard) Kate would announce "Activity has been detected in the backyard".

All I had to do, was (run some wire) and put an adapter on the appliance module that turns on the night-vision camera, then I plugged in an amplified speaker (a setup like the two speakers on a PC). I then ran a right speaker wire to the eve of my home in the backyard.

Having a voice warning inside was nice. Having the would be bad guys warned outside by voice..... better than a yard sign.

There has to be other ideas for stopping intruders BEFORE they break a door or window.

Say Dave jump in here and tell me what you think as you know we both agree the first line of defense is to keep them outside but in the rare chance they do make it past your perimeter  defenses and actually gain entry what do you think about attacking the sences with a small strobe light seems like this would be extremely disorientating experence and the strobe is relatively inexpensive. see like below.

tom j

http://www.amazon.com/Zenon-Strobe-Light/dp/B000NBL2XA/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1205358564&sr=8-13
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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2008, 05:16:40 AM »


Say Dave jump in here and tell me what you think as you know we both agree the first line of defense is to keep them outside but in the rare chance they do make it past your perimeter  defenses and actually gain entry what do you think about attacking the sences with a small strobe light seems like this would be extremely disorientating experence and the strobe is relatively inexpensive. see like below.

tom j

http://www.amazon.com/Zenon-Strobe-Light/dp/B000NBL2XA/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1205358564&sr=8-13

I like the idea of strobes... I have one similar... to the one you linked to.

The wife and I decorate for all the holidays... including halloween. The strobes tend to be on sale for halloween. We have picked up several over the years. For trick-or-treat night... I place the strobes, pointing at the windows, in each room that faces the street.. as well as under a front yard pine tree. The result is very attention getting. These things would also wake the dead if triggered by a fire alarm.

However I like the outside mounted strobes as well. As they will also help serve as a deterrent.

I haven't NOT planned for a forced entry. If my wife and/or I are at home... the perimeter detection should give us plenty of time to call the police... and even escape if need be. Of course the most comman break-in occurs during daylight (morning) when family members are away (work and school). This also happens to be when sirens, bells, flashing lights and strobes are less effective. The alarms phone-dialer will call the police, the lights and sirens might scare away the intruder(s). The insurance adjuster will determend damage... and we will receive a check.

Of course... that isn't where it ends. I don't know if a burglar would "take" anything that can't be replaced... or if living in the home would ever feel as-safe again.

That's why I continue to look at... and for.. NEW deterrents.
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dahur

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2008, 10:25:05 AM »

Dave,
It sounds like you have put up a very good defense of your home. Any would-be thief would have to be pretty darn stupid to even try it.

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HA Dave

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2008, 11:57:43 AM »

It sounds like you have put up a very good defense of your home. Any would-be thief would have to be pretty darn stupid to even try it.

Thanks

And there is the rub. Burglary is my state is a serious crime... yet it still seems to be popular. I don't want to call the pert's stupid..... but have you ever noticed that even public restrooms lock-up the toilet tissue? I mean who is so stupid they risk arrest for a couple bucks worth of toilet paper?

I like my neighbors... I REALLY DO. But what I am attempting to do is harden my home to the point that the neighbors become the much easier target. Anyone can do what I have done. It certainly hasn't cost me much... nor required much time or skill. I am still looking for few more good ideas on how to keep them outside.
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steven r

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Re: Keep them outside - better than a sign
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2008, 12:10:19 PM »

...but have you ever noticed that even public restrooms lock-up the toilet tissue? I mean who is so stupid they risk arrest for a couple bucks worth of toilet paper?...
Any college towns near by? I remember a few students that had to "borrow" a few rolls from time to time when expenses were tight.
Then there's always Halloween.  ;)
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