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[SimonW]

Forewarning: this is deliberately a slightly silly post, however my underlying question is actually a semi-serious one!! 

As per my other recent posting to this forum I’m currently experimenting with adding motion sensors to my X10 setup for the purpose of lighting control.  I was thinking a good candidate for this might be bathrooms: it would both save from having to switch the light on when entering the bathroom, as well as (to me more importantly!) automatically switch off the light after use and thus prevent people leaving the light on (really annoys me, especially as all my bathrooms have extractor fans directly linked with the lights and thus these get left on too!).

However, I was wondering: when someone is in a bathroom.. do they keep moving ‘enough’ for the motion sensor to detect and not switch the lights off?!?!  I realise this questions is very situation dependant, and also will be greatly influenced by the bathroom layout and sensor placement, but just in general I’d be interested in peoples experiences if they’ve tried this.  For me I’d be looking to have the ‘off delay’ on the sensor set to no more than 4 minutes – otherwise I’d consider it to be a negative saving as to how long it’d leave the lights on for – however if someone is either taking a bath or perhaps partaking in a ‘sit down’-type operation (but obviously not at the same time!) would they not be at risk of being plunged into darkness??!

Cheers, Simon

ps. actually in writing this I’ve realised that I’d actually implement the setup by replacing the light wall switch which is outside of the bathrooms with an X10 controlled wall appliance switch, therefore while the motion sensor could switch on the lights there’s nothing to stop them being turn off manually on exit (after the door has been shut).. which may mean I could actually extend the sensor ‘off delay’ to something longer thus reducing the risk of the lights turning off while someone was keeping still and more using the auto off as a fail-safe mechanism for lights that have been forgot to be switched off manually..

[dave w]

However, I was wondering: when someone is in a bathroom.. do they keep moving ‘enough’ for the motion sensor to detect and not switch the lights off?!?!  I realise this questions is very situation dependant, and also will be greatly influenced by the bathroom layout and sensor placement, but just in general I’d be interested in peoples experiences if they’ve tried this. 
ps. actually in writing this I’ve realised that I’d actually implement the setup by replacing the light wall switch which is outside of the bathrooms with an X10 controlled wall appliance switch, therefore while the motion sensor could switch on the lights there’s nothing to stop them being turn off manually on exit (after the door has been shut).. which may mean I could actually extend the sensor ‘off delay’ to something longer thus reducing the risk of the lights turning off while someone was keeping still and more using the auto off as a fail-safe mechanism for lights that have been forgot to be switched off manually..

Simon
Your PS may be the way to go, however whether manually turning off the bath light OR having X10 turn off the bath light there will need to be some human "training" involved. i.e "turn oof but not on" or "wave" (see following explanation)

I use an "ActiveEye" to trigger rope lights under our bed to brighten to a soft glow when either wife or I get up to go to bathroom at night. The ActiveEye sets on a dresser about 4 feet from the bed. Being as close as it is to the target area (wife and I in bed) the ActiveEye will trigger with a simple raising of my arm. With that sensitivity, obviously it always triggers when I raise up.

So if your xxxxEye is positioned close to the target area, yes small movements will keep the xxxxEye in the ON state. But it may be necessary to "wave" at the xxxxEye every 3 3/4 minutes or so 

[Nishant Pant]

I have the same problem. Everytime I am in the shower, bathtub or on "the seat"...I end up being in darkness....and I really find it silly to have to wave my arms to turn on the lights again. I hate the fact that X10 advertises MS12A...MS16A as occupancy/motion sensors. These are 2 different animals and should not be confused. I really wish there was a "REAL" occupancy x10 sensor available, which would sense the presence of a heated body in the room.

Since, x10 motion sensors are not occupancy sensors, I also have problems, where if there is 1 person in the bathroom and the 2nd person walks in, the lights turn off. (this happens coz I set a flag when u pass the motion sensor and if u pass it again and the flag was set, motion sensor thinks the person is now exiting and turns off the lights).

Also, is there a way to write a macro which will count the number of people getting and to only turn off the lights when the same no of people have walked out (who came in originally) If there was an occupancy sensor, it would not matter how many people enter the room ...because as long as the heat signature of the room is higher than a normal room, it would still indicate that the bathroom is still occupied.

[USdangerboy]

Dang Nishant, you have quite a busy bathroom!  You should just charge admission to that thing and put in some heavy duty sensors with the income!! 

Anyway, unless you put a sensor on each side of the bathroom (my bathrooms are "L" shaped, so have to go around a corner hence two sensors) and one in the shower, you'll have the lights go out on ya!  The only way you could use an X10 sensor to "count" passing of people is if you set it to a VERY narrow beam via either led paint over the front of the half circle of the sensor front, or via small squares of tile/glass over the edges of the sensor; I did both, the paint is the easiest, the blocking of the sensor viewing angle is more accurate.  I used it as a door entry "beam" like those ones you break the beam and it sets a tone in a small ma-and-pa kind of shop.

Anyway, back to the Bathrrom Party Patrol .... I had it working with one on DARK the other two on 24 hrs and use the DARK one to tell the other two to fire based on a macro.  The DARK sensor basically just sets a FLAG, then the 24 hour sensor acts based on the FLAG status.  The 24 hour sensors, when they fire, check FLAG status, if it's ON, then the DARK sensor set it that way, so they amp the lights.  They keep firiing IF THERE IS MOTION, and won't start their delay counter until there is no motion.  When they send the OFF command, it's a macro as well that dims the lights to OFF, then clears the flag.  The only way for the FLAG to be SET is for the DARK sensor to do it.  This basically bypasses the inherent nature of the DARK sensors to ignore motion until their delay is reached.  I made up a VERY crude diagram quickly in MSPaint, attached here.  The green lines are the sensor paths, so got the doors and all aspects of the room covered in this one.

This of course, was three sensors, about $40, six batteries every six months, time to manage, blah, blah.  It was sorking, but I had ugly sensors everywhere, except the shower one, I put in the wall behind some plexi to protect it from moisture.  Since the battery life was different for each of them, and it was kind of a pain, I abandoned it and used the sensors elsewhere.

Ultimately, I solved it thusly:  Put a $45 Heath/Zenith in my bathrooms that also senses heat.  This way, it turns on when motion is detected, and if someone is in there, regardless of motion (a Maxim by the lou can mean long spells of inactivity).  This solved the problem for me and it's solid state, and 100% correct all the time and no batteries or macros to manage, or lingering doubt about guests walking in the bathroom and the macro hanging up or not firing or something.  Just replace the light switch in about 10 mins and you don't touch it again for about two and a half years until it stops working (typical life span I find). 

I'm obviously a strong proponent of the Russian saying, "If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, then every problem appears to you to be a nail!"

The shower sensor is still in place, of course, I mean, how else will I activate the shower cam and stream to the net to try and earn enough money to keep buying X10 products!?!?!?