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Author Topic: battery status  (Read 27303 times)

tk31151

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battery status
« on: October 02, 2007, 12:10:19 PM »

Does the battery status need to be updated to read more than 0 in order for lights, etc., to come on as scheduled?
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Puck

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Re: battery status
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2007, 01:27:43 PM »

Does the battery status need to be updated to read more than 0 in order for lights, etc., to come on as scheduled?

tk31151: Welcome to the forum. You should add more details regarding the product you are referring to.  ;)

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here, but if you are talking about the batteries and battery status monitor of the CM15A in ActiveHome Pro, here are some details about it:

1) The battery is monitored to be above a certain voltage level; this monitor only sets a digital input to the CM15A's micro-controller to indicate the battery is either good or bad.

2) A low, dead or missing battery will not affect the normal operation of the plugged-in CM15A. It's does not get charged by the CM15A nor do they apply operational power while the unit is plugged into AC.

3) The purpose of the batteries is only to retain the RAM memory of the micro-controller when the CM15A is unplugged from AC. It mainly prevents the CM15A from losing it's time and date settings during a power outage.

So, to answer your question (I think), the state of the batteries will not affect timer schedules of the CM15A.
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steven r

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Re: battery status
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2007, 02:44:37 PM »

I'm guessing that he is referring to "Tools" / "Hardware Configuration" / "Battery Status" / "Time Remaining"

BTW... How does AHP keep track of Time Remaining? Does the CM15A communicate with AHP as to how long it has run on battery power?


Could X10 program AHP to set a flag, that we could use, if say it got a signal that power was restored to the CM15A?
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: battery status
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2007, 03:46:21 PM »

I'm guessing that he is referring to "Tools" / "Hardware Configuration" / "Battery Status" / "Time Remaining"

BTW... How does AHP keep track of Time Remaining? Does the CM15A communicate with AHP as to how long it has run on battery power?

Could X10 program AHP to set a flag, that we could use, if say it got a signal that power was restored to the CM15A?

According to the info on Neil Cherry's site <http://www.linuxha.com/USB/cm15a.html> the battery timer is part of a status block, similar to that for the CM11A, which is presumably read from the CM15A when 'Tools > Hardware Configuration' is clicked in AHP.  The CM11A timer counts UP from xero in minutes of battery operation, but the CM15A looks like it might count DOWN from 48:00:00 in seconds.

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Puck

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Re: battery status
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2007, 11:24:47 PM »

[According to the info on Neil Cherry's site <http://www.linuxha.com/USB/cm15a.html> the battery timer is part of a status block, similar to that for the CM11A, which is presumably read from the CM15A when 'Tools > Hardware Configuration' is clicked in AHP.  The CM11A timer counts UP from xero in minutes of battery operation, but the CM15A looks like it might count DOWN from 48:00:00 in seconds.

Did some tests on this:

1. The counter does start counting down when there is no AC.

2. It counter display only updates when you request the Hardware Configuration window (no real-time update).

3. The counter is in the HH:MM:SS format, but the resolution is in minutes (seconds stay at '00').

4. When AC power is returned, the countdown stops.

I guess the engineers calculate that the average batteries will retain the CM15A's memory for 48 hours, so it will accumulate the time that there was no AC and the batteries were active.

Somewhat useful, but I'd trust the battery status "green light" indicator in the menu more since it is activated by actual battery voltage level.

If they can start a counter when AC goes out, they should be able to give us a flag like steven r suggested or something similar to P16 to trigger a PC macro.
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Walt2

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Re: battery status
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2007, 07:57:17 AM »

BTW, I think the batteries do more than just maintain the memory, the micro seems to be still running when the CM15a is unplugged from AC.   I mean, Windows will still load/unload the USB driver by plugging/unplugging the USB cable from the CM15a, even when it is not plugged into the wall.
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Puck

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Re: battery status
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2007, 09:03:40 AM »

BTW, I think the batteries do more than just maintain the memory, the micro seems to be still running when the CM15a is unplugged from AC.   I mean, Windows will still load/unload the USB driver by plugging/unplugging the USB cable from the CM15a, even when it is not plugged into the wall.

This true, but without AC it cannot process X10 PLC commands. I don't recall if the battery circuit also supplies the RF section as well (I'll check the schematic tonight); if it does then RF sensors would still trigger macros but not be able to execute to many functions outside of the PC ones. So even though the whole micro-controller is still running as normal, the only practical purpose of the batteries is to retain the memory.
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steven r

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Re: battery status
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2007, 09:30:44 AM »

...the micro seems to be still running when the CM15a is unplugged from AC....
Has anyone verified if macros and timed events continue?
While a PLC can't be sent during a power outage, will a brief power interruption kill the execution of a macro?
e.g. For a macro timed that begins at 10:00am that turns on A1, delays 10 minutes and then turns on A2, what would happen in these scenarios?
  • Power goes out at 9:55am and comes back on at 10:05.
  • Power "flickers out" at 10:05 am. Does it matter if power is out for 1 sec or 2 min?
  • Power goes out at 10:05 am and comes back on at 10:15.

While it should be easy to test this, I think I tried once with inconclusive results most likely do to user test setup error.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 02:15:16 PM by steven r »
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Tuicemen

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Re: battery status
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2007, 12:03:04 PM »

BTW, I think the batteries do more than just maintain the memory, the micro seems to be still running when the CM15a is unplugged from AC.   I mean, Windows will still load/unload the USB driver by plugging/unplugging the USB cable from the CM15a, even when it is not plugged into the wall.
Windows will still load\unload the USb Driver without the batteries I've ran my CM15A for months on end without any! ;) In fact there are none in it now!
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: battery status
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 01:21:34 PM »

BTW, I think the batteries do more than just maintain the memory, the micro seems to be still running when the CM15a is unplugged from AC.   I mean, Windows will still load/unload the USB driver by plugging/unplugging the USB cable from the CM15a, even when it is not plugged into the wall.
Windows will still load\unload the USb Driver without the batteries I've ran my CM15A for months on end without any! ;) In fact there are none in it now!

Yours is running on AC without batteries.  Walt's was running on batteries with no AC.  It looks like either is sufficient to let Windows detect the CM15A connection.  If a no AC, no battery CM15A is plugged into the PC, Windows doesn't know about it - at least it doesn't sound the  little ding-a-ling it does when a normally-powered  USB device is plugged in.

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Walt2

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Re: battery status
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2007, 02:22:32 PM »

So even though the whole micro-controller is still running as normal, the only practical purpose of the batteries is to retain the memory.


I think it keeps the RTC running too.

I wonder if the CM15a will continue to attempt to send out powerline commands?  With no A/C, of course, they will go no where (but the CM15a might not know that).
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Walt2

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Re: battery status
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2007, 02:26:13 PM »

Yours is running on AC without batteries.  Walt's was running on batteries with no AC.  It looks like either is sufficient to let Windows detect the CM15A connection. 

I wonder just how much, if anything, the USB"s own +5v power is used?   I wonder if the micro runs off the USB +5v, regardless of batteries or AC?   An easy test, just try plugging in the USB cable with no batteries and no AC, and see if the USB driver loads (make note to try this tonight).
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: battery status
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2007, 04:58:08 PM »

So even though the whole micro-controller is still running as normal, the only practical purpose of the batteries is to retain the memory.


I think it keeps the RTC running too.

True - that's its main purpose.

Quote
I wonder if the CM15a will continue to attempt to send out powerline commands?  With no A/C, of course, they will go no where (but the CM15a might not know that).

The short bursts of 120KHz RF which comprise the X10 powerline signal are transmitted at the zero crossings of the AC waveform.  No AC, no zero crossings.   I suppose the transmitter might sync with the RTC clock pulses while on battery power.  It would be a senseless waste of battery energy, but conserving battery energy may not have been very high on the designers' priority list.

X10 RF signals (310MHz) aren't tied to the AC waveform so the CM15A could conceivably try to sent them while on battery power, e.g., from a downloaded timer.

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Puck

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Re: battery status
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2007, 05:58:28 PM »

So even though the whole micro-controller is still running as normal, the only practical purpose of the batteries is to retain the memory.


I think it keeps the RTC running too.

True - that's its main purpose.

There is no separate RTC circuit; the micro-control just has an internal 12MHz clock. I do not see an internal RTC circuit so I'm thinking it may be accomplished with code. Maybe under normal conditions the zero-crossing detector will regulate the time. From seeing the battery usage countdown timer working when unplugged it's safe to say the zero-crossing isn't the main controller of the time clock.

Therefore, macros with delays should still continue to run unless there is something in the code that halts macro & timer execution in the absence of a zero-crossing pulse. (TBD)

Quote
It would be a senseless waste of battery energy, but conserving battery energy may not have been very high on the designers' priority list.

Part of the PLC output circuit is powered by +30V that comes direct from the AC-DC bridge; so it looks like if it is trying to send PLC without AC, it's just sending TTL pulses from the micro-controller into a high impedance. The micro-controller typically draws 16mA.

The RF section is also connected to the same +5VDC line as the micro-controller. When not transmitting RF, the transmit section current will be negliable; and the receiver's IC only draws 4.5mA typically.

I wonder just how much, if anything, the USB"s own +5v power is used?   I wonder if the micro runs off the USB +5v, regardless of batteries or AC?   An easy test, just try plugging in the USB cable with no batteries and no AC, and see if the USB driver loads (make note to try this tonight).

The USB's +5V line is shown as Not Connected on the CM15A schematic.


Hmmm.... I hope the OP was referring to the the CM15A.  :D

Nonetheless, lots of good questions and information being discovered on the topic.
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Don N

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Re: battery status
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2007, 06:35:40 PM »

Hmmm ... seems like the X10 Guys could give us some info here.  What say you!!!!!
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