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Author Topic: Converting An Existing X10 System To Work With CFLs  (Read 91632 times)
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« on: December 23, 2007, 06:16:57 PM »

CONVERTING AN EXISTING X10 SYSTEM TO WORK WITH CFLs

Like a lot of us on this site I have been gradually expanding my X10 system in this particular house for over 16 years and because of that I have a significant investment in installed modules and related equipment.  As much as I wanted to convert to CFLs I didn't want to incur the expense of replacing a bunch of modules to do it.

Initially I tried a number of different brands of CFLs in non X10 sockets to get a feel for them.  The earliest ones, circa 2006, had line noise that interfered with X10, were slow to start and were odd colors.  To get a feel for what would have been be involved in this kind of conversion as recently as early 2007 see this excellent tutorial by JeffVolp.  I'd suggest adding it to your favorites in case you happen to run into any problems of the kind he's already solved.  Steve Ciarcia also has some interesting comments on using CFLs and LEDs with X10.

Eventually I settled on NVision from Home Depot partially based on personal experience and partially based on information posted here.  I was pleased to see they also came out on top in the recent Popular Mechanics ratings. From my perspective their main features are instant on, excellent color, no line noise & high WAF. Whatever CFL you use try it before proceeding.  Because the technology is changing rapidly they might work without switch or module modification, but beware, sometimes they work with local control but will produce enough line noise to block the remote control X10 signal. so you still have to do one of the mods listed here.  If you find any that work without module modification please post a note in this thread so we all know about them.

Using the techniques described here I've converted all the high usage, X10 controlled lights in the house to CFLs.  There are a few low wattage X10 controlled lights that won't be converted because there are no equivalent CFL bulbs and six low usage X10 controlled outdoor flood lights that also won't be converted because there's not enough cost benefit to bother. You can see the results on the savings analysis page and on my X10 system diagram. The diagram is a PDF file so enlarge the view or print it in normal landscape mode for the clearest image. By the way, I need advice on what I should do with all the leftover incandescent bulbs?

The following links describe what I've done so far to install CFLs in my existing X10 system.

   SWITCH REPLACEMENT:
   
   MODULE REPLACEMENT:
   
   LAMP MODIFICATION:
   
   SWITCH MODIFICATION:

   EPILOGUE
   
   ERRATA:

In addition to reading what I've written you should also do a general search on the Forum for "CFL".  There is a ton of useful information here.

WORDS OF CAUTION!
 * In some cases I'm using dimming modules and modified dimming wall switches with non-dimming CFLs which many posters on the Forum don't recommend.
We haven't had any trouble from this as yet but you should decide for yourself whether or not you want to go this route.
 * Please understand that if you decide to do any of these modifications yourself you will be doing so at your own risk.  I'm simply sharing information about what worked for me but that in no way guarantees that it will work the same way for you.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:56:05 AM by JeffVolp » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2007, 06:18:37 PM »

SWITCH REPLACEMENT:

I’ll admit up front that I did replace two WS467 switches and one WS477 3 way switch and learned a lot in the process.  The WS477 was wired to one of the jacks in each of several duplex outlets in our living room. One of these had a two bulb table lamp plugged into it.  That WS477 had to be replaced with an XPS3 anyway because it is against code to have a dimmer switch wired to an outlet.  In addition it had always worried me that someone might plug in a vacuum cleaner or iron and blow up the WS477 or worse yet start a fire.  The 20 amp rating on the XPS3 solved both these problems but created two new ones because the existing companion switch was a CS227 which X10 says shouldn’t be used with the XPS3. What’s more the switch knob was a large Decora one rather than a small traditional one. 

By the way the relative locations of the main and companion switch also had to be swapped because the XPS3 has to be at the power feed end of a 3 way circuit whereas a WS477 doesn’t.

Since the XPS3 was now in the same 2 gang switch plate as a WS467 that controlled a front porch and a post light, that WS467 had to be converted to an XPS3 to keep the WAF up.

Since the CS227 was now in a 4 gang traditional switch plate that I didn’t want to convert to an XPSS Decora companion switch some more special wiring was required.  When I converted my attic fan controls to X10 I’d already discovered that the secret to using a CS227 with an XPS3 was not to carry the power feed through the two black wires connected to the CS227 but to simply wire the CS227 as a floating push button, so this was no problem.

The second WS467 controlled the back porch light but was installed in a traditional 3 gang switch plate so I had the same Decora button problem again since I didn’t want to modify the WS467 on this particular circuit.  One of the other switches in the plate was non X10 so that was a $3 swap but the other was a CS227 companion switch that I didn’t want to replace with an XPSS at $10 including shipping on Ebay.  I simply took a regular $3 Leviton Decora apart and modified it for momentary action to replace the CS227.  After I’d already done this I found another post on the forum referring to this same modification but in a different context.

Although I didn't have the problem myself, some built in fixtures, even in new houses, do not have a neutral in the switch box that controls them making it seemingly impossible to use an XPS3 or WS13A.  The solution to this situation has been provided in another thread by Waynemor.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 06:03:32 AM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2007, 06:22:11 PM »

MODULE REPLACEMENT:

For years the table lamp on the book case next to my desk has been controlled by a lamp module that also had a small florescent light, with its own switch, plugged into it.  This light is needed to inspect special print jobs as they came out of the printer but isn't used very often.  As you might expect, if it was ON the lamp module couldn't turn it and the table lamp OFF but if it was OFF it could turn both of them ON.  So I changed this to an appliance module but when the appliance module was OFF the CFL blinked slowly, as they usually do because of the local control sensing current. I use 1/2 watt 22k ohm resistors (red, red, orange) across the load to solve this problem.  If you don't need local control from the switch on the lamp they can go anywhere after the module.  In this case I put the resistor by itself inside an AC plug and plugged that into the cube tap that was already on the module.  It works fine.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 06:15:45 PM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2007, 06:23:26 PM »

LAMP MODIFICATION:

Lamps plugged into lamp and appliance modules work with CFLs except they usually blink ON briefly but slowly when the module is OFF because of the local control sensing current. Again the solution is a 1/2 watt 22k ohm resistor (red, red, orange) across the load. The resistor doesn't work on unmodified WS467s because they're not connected to neutral as the modules are and isn't needed on modified WS467s. By the way a night light or, as I have also found, leaving one matching incandescent, installed along with CFLs also works but isn't very elegant or energy efficient.

If you don't care about local control by the lamp switch you can put the resistor inside the plug on the lamp cord.  I use large plugs for under $3 from Home Depot.

If you want local control by the module to still work the resistor has to go inside the socket after the lamp switch.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 12:00:58 PM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2007, 06:24:57 PM »

SWITCH MODIFICATION:

NOTE:  All my WS467s and WS477s are older production.  Apparently the latest production has some different components inside which I have no experience with.  You can tell them from older production because they have local diming capability. Hopefully others will be able to post their results modifying these newer wall switches.

There are instructions on this web site under "adding a neutral wire" for converting WS467s  (and similar switches) to work with CFLs. The main problem is that these instructions are very sparse. They also apply to WS4777s, you'll just have one more wire to deal with. This is not a job for wimps but once you've done one it becomes very straight forward.  Here are some additional pointers based on my experience.

What helped me the most was having a burned out WS467 to practice on before I tackled a live one.  Most important I learned how to quickly and easily get the unit out of and back into its case and also how to do the whole job without removing the printed circuit board, which means you don't have to deal with a bunch of small parts flying around. I also built a fixture to test the modified switches before installing them.

The case is held together at each corner by a molded plastic catch.  With your finger nail pulling in the crack between the two halves you press down on each catch in turn with a small screwdriver until it releases that part of the cover. A 15 second job once you get the hang of it.

The next challenge is freeing the back cover from the wires since they are looped through a retainer inside the back of the cover and then out through a slot.  After the cover is loose you need to gently poke the wires into the slot until you can reach them individually with needle nose pliers and pull them the rest of the way.  Once you've done that you can slip them out of the retainer, freeing the cover and exposing the printed circuit board.

Next find the following: The 330k resistor (orange, orange, yellow) that is sticking straight up from the PCB next to the heat sink; the longer lead from the choke coil to the circuit board (not the one that goes toward the heat sink); and the blue lead.

Cut the long lead from the choke to the printed circuit board about ½" above the board. Pull off the insulating plastic, cut it in half then put a piece back on the lead. Finally scrape1/4" of the varnish you can't see, off of the end of the lead and put a tiny "U" hook in the end. Tin the end with solder.

Cut the rest of the long lead about ½" from the choke. Pull off the insulating plastic, cut it in half then put a piece back on the lead. Scrape 1/4" of the varnish you can't see, off the end of this also. Tin the end with solder.

Cut the blue lead about 3/8"  beyond the end of the heat shrink then strip off 1/4" of the insulation and tin the wire.  Strip 1/4" off the end of the piece of blue wire you just cut and tin that also.

Cut a piece of white stranded wire a little longer than the blue wire you just cut.  Strip and tin one end ½" and the other 1/4".  Solder the 1/4" end to the stub end of the blue wire that is still attached to the PCB.  This will be a parallel not a twisted connection.

Solder the 1/4" end of the blue wire to the end of the wire from the choke. This will also be a parallel not a twisted connection.

Put just enough heat shrink tubing on both the new white and blue connections to cover them.

Clip the lead from the PCB to the top of the 330K ohm resistor at the top of the resistor.  Put a tiny "U" hook in the end. Leave the old resistor where it is.

For the next step you'll need a new 330k resistor. Although the original looks like a 1 watt, a 1/4 or 1/10 watt will do fine. You can't get it at Radio Shack so pick up 5 packs of 220k and 100k resistors and use them in series.  They'll function just as well.  You just have to work carefully with very short leads. A 25 watt iron is best for all this soldering by the way.

Crimp one end of your new "330k" resistor into the "U" on the end of the old 330k resistor lead from the PCB and solder it.   Crimp the other end of the new resistor into the "U"on the end of old choke lead stub from the PCB and solder it.  Trim off the excess lead length and make sure this floating resistor assembly isn't touching any other components. Use a magnifying glass if necessary to be sure.  The old leads from the PCB should be coming straight up to the resistor leads. The resistor and its leads should be horizontal.  When the resistors are soldered together and to the two stub leads from the PCB the whole assembly is very stiff so it easily stays in place floating above the components on the PCB. Here's a picture of the modified unit before the cover is put back on.

Thread the blue, black and white wires out the slot in the cover, bypassing the old retainer, and  snap the cover back into place. Be careful not to jam anything inside the switch in the process

« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 12:06:11 PM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2007, 08:17:53 PM »

Oldtimer,

I am sure that many will find your post most informative and well thought out.

However I see this whole issue as something that will have to be addressed by X-10 in future products or by the light bulb industry to be properly resolved. I would be very cautious in advising anyone to make these modifications because of the problem of liability. I do not believe that any of this would meet local electrical codes and if god forbid something went wrong and it caused an electrical fire and an insurance adjuster determined that  it was caused by an unapproved or modified module or switch they just might have a real problem on there hands. 
CF L's are going to be the standard in 2012 in the USA and we will no longer be able to buy incandescent bulbs unless they somehow make them meet energy requirements. I believe that dim able CF L's will become more mainstream and compatible with X-10. I also believe that X-10 modules and switches will have to be made fully CFL compatible or X-10 will not survive. Perhaps X-10 has already outlived its usefully life and another better low cost technology will take over if its not already happening.
I love X-10 for its extensive lineup of products even though it is an aging technology it still works for many. I personally use X-10 because its cheap and would probably never have gotten into Home Automation if not for its low cost. Its a hobby to me and I kinda like tinkering and finding solutions. I believe the average Joe Consumer just wants a plug and play solution though.
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 06:58:13 AM »

Oldtimer:
As always, Very Informative Posts! Wink
Thanks for sharing!
Cheers & Happy Holidays!
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 11:06:39 AM »

ERRATA

I've added an Errata page to this thread since I suspect there will be a lot of additions and changes as some of the regulars chime in and other readers ask for clarifications.  This way you'll know right away if there's anything new you should check out.

  • 12/23/07:"Draft WIP" warning removed.
  • 12/24/07: Errata page added.  Link to original 22k ohm resistor post added. Lots of other little things cleaned up.
  • 12/30/07: Note re newer wall switches added.  Additional editing for clarity done at various times since last changes.
  • 12/31/07: Modified WS467 pic added.  Test jig pic added. Dimming post added. Additional editing.
  • 01/01/08: Links to incandescents as blinking cure added. Additional editing.
  • 01/17/08: All references to the 22k home resistors in this thread and in the related links have been corrected to 1/2 watt which is what I've been using from the beginning.
  • 01/25/08: Link added to a savings analysis and fixture list page in the first post in this thread. Additional editing to that post.
  • 01/29/08: Link added in the first post in this thread to important off Forum information from JeffVolp and a link to comments on the Forum from Steve Ciarcia. Jeff's tutorial was in my original notes for this thread but somehow got omitted. Additional editing to that post.
  • 02/15/08: Link added at end of Switch Replacement post about one solution to a missing neutral wire in a switch box.
  • 02/28/08: Epilogue page added to document the aftermath of the conversion including some unresolved glitches.
  • 07/26/08: Update to fluorescent/CFL interaction added to Epilogue page and update re resistor use added to resistor link that is on several pages.
  • 12/13/08: "ONE YEAR LATER" Comment added to the Epilogue page about status of all system mods after year or more of use.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 05:11:23 PM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2007, 06:59:41 PM »

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIM A REGULAR CFL WITH A MODIFIED DIMMING X10 SWITCH?

In my tests I found that nothing bad seemed to happen!  Over most of the dimming range the regular CFL stayed just as bright, then it dimmed a little, then it flickered and finally went out.  I think it would be immediately apparent to anyone who tried to dim a CFL that it wasn't working and hopefully they'd turn it off or ramp it back up to full brightness.

My tests weren't prolonged because I didn't detect any heat build up in the modified switch let alone what you'd normally feel when dimming a regular incandecant bulb.

I used a modified WS467 for this test.  Because it has a neutral connection the same as a modified WS467 I suspect a lamp module will give the same results.  I didn't try one because the heat sink isn't as accessible.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 05:47:14 AM by Oldtimer » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 03:25:57 AM »

A dimmable CFL may have dimmed to maybe 20%-30% then flicker and go out. I have only tested with a Lamp Module [Insteon and X10 brands] and that is what I found.
Thanks again for this great set of informative tutorials.
NOTE: My dimmable was a ULA SDS23 bulb and I found it made enough power line noise to kill weak X10 signals.
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2008, 06:14:52 PM »

EPILOGUE

I added this section to the tutorial to document the aftermath of converting an entire house to CFLs. It was added two months after the job was completed (?) and will be updated as things evolve, along with the rest of the thread. Note that, in some cases, I'm documenting problems that haven't been solved yet, so if you have any suggestions please post them.

CFL/FLUORESCENT INTERACTION: The upstairs bathroom has four 40 W equivalent CFLs in a strip at the top of the wide medicine cabinet mirror doors.  As noted elsewhere they are too bright when full on for everyday use so we have a switch in the fixture to turn off the middle two when we don't need them.  These are controlled by a modified WS467.  There is also a fluorescent light under the bottom edge of the medicine cabinet that bounces light off of the white counter top so you can see under your chin when shaving, etc.  This is controlled by its own manual switch before the WS467 on the same circuit. Most of the time, if you turn on the fluorescent light after you turn on either two or four of the CFLs, the blinking of the fluorescent, during its turn on process, will turn OFF the CFLs!  We're living with this for now, while I try to figure out a cure.
7/26/08: We've discovered that this interaction only occurs when the CFLs are "cold".  If they've been on for more than a couple of minutes the fluorescent doesn't turn them off when it powers up.

UNEXPECTED BENEFIT OF SLOW CFL BRIGHTENING: The spirals in the above CFLs are inside decorative globes and are MUCH slower then current NVision production to reach full intensity. The slow brightening turns out to be an advantage at night since they give your eyes a chance to adapt to the light if you turn them on when you've been asleep and were guided into the bathroom by only the glow of a night light.  As nice as this is for now, I may have a problem if I have to replace one or more of them per the next note.

SUSPECTED OLDER TECHNOLOGY IN ENCASED CFLS: One thing I've noticed is that the simple twisty NVision CFLs from Home Depot turn on immediately.  But, the encased bulbs such as we use in our bathroom and floodlights are extremely slow to turn on.  I'm concerned that the technology in the innards of these bulbs is much older production that doesn't move as fast off the shelf.  I may try to do a little more research on this. I'm also afraid that if I have to replace one of them it will turn on much faster than the other three!

TELEPHONE/CFL INTERACTION: Some CFLs seem to radiate noise that is picked up on the phone lines. In our house the problem comes from only about 5 of the total of 49 bulbs currently installed.   Click here to see what I had to do to correct this problem. Note that some of this remediation had to be done anyway, not just for CFLs.

POWERMID/CFL INTERACTION: The two CFLs in ceiling fixtures over the hearth of our fireplace interferes with our PowerMid that controls the upstairs Tivo.  We only turn on the power to this when we use it but if these CFLs are ON, the PowerMid transmitter LED blinks continuously as if an IR remote control were aimed at it.  Regular X10 filters don't fix the problem. Again, we're living with this for now while I look for a cure.

THE BRANCH CIRCUIT FROM HADES: One branch circuit from our breaker panel handles two outside lights controlled by X10, a two bulb lamp plugged into a switched outlet controlled by X10, two light fixtures over our fireplace controlled by X10 (see above), a Christmas tree, in season, controlled by X10, a Tivo box, an LCD TV set and a PowerMid (see above).  My research over the years has shown that the wiring on this branch, while up to code, is a rats nest.  Long before the 6 bulbs were converted to CFLs the reliability of the X10 modules on this branch was iffy.  After the module replacements and conversions described elsewhere in this thread the reliability was still iffy.  I already had X10 filters on the TV and the Tivo and after the conversion added them to the lamp and fireplace fixtures which helped quite a bit, but not enough.  So, I bit the bullet and installed an XTB signal booster from Jeff Volp.  This branch as well as the whole system is now rock stable. It would appear that even CFLs that play well with X10 can also be signal suckers if there are enough of them on a given branch.

ONE YEAR LATER: As of today, 12/13/08, all the modifications described in the thread, except for the ones in this post,  have been in use for several months more than one year.  Although several forum members have posted cautionary notes about resistor values, and such things I am pleased to report that everything is still working as installed with no problems.  However, as a firm believer in belt and suspender safety,  I'd consider using the theoretically safer component values if I were to do these modifications again even though I've not had anything go wrong so far.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:31:56 AM by JeffVolp » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2008, 06:34:04 PM »

I also use the nvision spirals and don't have any problem with them, but I also noticed (as you did) a flash on the PowerMid every time I turn on a nearby bed lamp.  It doesn't appear to interfere with anything, but it's there.  Thanks for the good write-up.
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« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2008, 08:31:18 AM »

While somewhat off topic, some of the newer high efficiency standard fluorescent lights can also cause problems for X10.  These are the ones with electronic ballasts rather than the big old magnetic ones.  I had a recent report that said a standard fluorescent light started to cause a problem after working fine for several years.  From what I saw with that Cellet cellphone charger, noise generated by these switching suppiles can vary greatly depending on load and line voltage.  The solutions for standard fluorescents with electronic ballasts are similar to what must be done to deal with problem CFLs.

Jeff
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 06:06:38 PM »

I have an outside light that has worked fine for years on the WS467.  I'd like to use a CFL in it, but am having the following problem (for which I think there is no solution...I'm hoping somebody can prove me wrong!)

First of all, there is no neutral in the box.  What's worse, since this circuit also has an outside outlet and a bathroom outlet on it, it is protected by a GFCI at the panel...so I can't even cheat and use a modified WS467 connecting the neutral to ground.  Anybody have any ideas, short of trying to run a neutral (nearly impossible) or just giving up and going back to an incandescent bulb?

Thanks for any thoughts.

-D
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 05:00:16 AM »

I have an outside light that has worked fine for years on the WS467.  I'd like to use a CFL in it, but am having the following problem (for which I think there is no solution...I'm hoping somebody can prove me wrong!)

First of all, there is no neutral in the box.  What's worse, since this circuit also has an outside outlet and a bathroom outlet on it, it is protected by a GFCI at the panel...so I can't even cheat and use a modified WS467 connecting the neutral to ground.  Anybody have any ideas, short of trying to run a neutral (nearly impossible) or just giving up and going back to an incandescent bulb?

Thanks for any thoughts.

-D

There is a link in this thread at the end of the SWITCH REPLACEMENT post, above, to one solution to this problem.  Click here to go directly to the link:

http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=14521.msg80868#msg80868

You'll have to change the module but it should meet all the conditions you describe.
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