FIRE HAZARD WARNING! LM465 Lamp Module

[dave w]

This wall switch has been in service w/AHP for at least 2 years w/o any problems.
But I do want to switch to CFs in many circuits, is X10 going to design a module to control the CFs?  Are there any proven work arounds for this situation?
Thanks.

A two wire wall switch such as a WS467 derives it's operational power parasitically through the load. Only incandescent bulbs allow this, CFLs do not. X10 can't change that fact. One thing you can try is to keep at least one incandescent light in the CFL circuit (multiple socket fixture?). X10 does have methods of controlling CFLs such as Socket Rockets and "non dimming" wall switches .

[noodles168]

I have been using X10 switches and modules with  CFLs that I bought from Costco. some of which were marked as usable with dimmers. I do not dim those  but the one time I tried the bulb over heated and failed. I have multiple recessed ceiling lights that are controlled by X10 wall switch. I had to install one incandsent bulb for the CFLS to work. ditto with my two light (top and bottom) cellar stairs). I have been using the bulbs for three years and except for the above mentioned failure I have not experienced any problems.
Thanks though for the hazard warning.

[4plus3vette]

I don't think I ever saw that X10 WALL switches should be used with CFL bulbs on this forum.  Maybe lamp modules and socket rockets could be used (at your own risk).  Perhaps some one could elaborate on this.  My own use is restricted to socket rockets and lamp modules, the lamp modules controlling a CFL bulb/15 Watt incandescent combination.  No dimming......

When I switched from incandescent lamps to the CFLs I was using WS467 switches.  I was very cautions about it when I first put the lights in and turned it on.  In the off position, they flickered (like OldTimer has stated with plugin style lamp modules).  So I put the incandescent bulbs back in until my XPS3 wall switch modules came in.  These work as wall switches, but handle current more like appliance modules - and they do not dim.

In conclusion, the XPS3 works well for CFL bubls. 

[LittleLarry]

 Geez, this stuff makes me nervous as I was contemplating using the LM465 with a standard 120v halogen (one that does NOT have a built in dimmer or transformer - plugs in with regular 2 prong electrical cord) per this link:

http://www.homeautomatedliving.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-1424.html

Do you think that this would be a bad idea?

"If you're talking generic 120V Halogens, then they are simply incandescent lights and will work with any dimmer."

I definately do not want to run the risk of a fire, and just hearing about this potential risk with the cfl's makes me wonder if the more expensive Insteon's or Leviton's are worth the extra cost if they have better fire-retardant materials than these x10 modules do? Any thoughts on that?

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

Geez, this stuff makes me nervous as I was contemplating using the LM465 with a standard 120v halogen (one that does NOT have a built in dimmer or transformer - plugs in with regular 2 prong electrical cord) per this link:

http://www.homeautomatedliving.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-1424.html

Do you think that this would be a bad idea?

"If you're talking generic 120V Halogens, then they are simply incandescent lights and will work with any dimmer."

I definately do not want to run the risk of a fire, and just hearing about this potential risk with the cfl's makes me wonder if the more expensive Insteon's or Leviton's are worth the extra cost if they have better fire-retardant materials than these x10 modules do? Any thoughts on that?

The issue here is not specific to using CFL's or other bulbs with X10.  The issue is that CFL's by nature can have internal short-circuit problems in the electronics that produce the high voltage that makes them light.  I have had a couple CFL bulbs fail in "normal use" and fortunately just let out a bad "burnt electronics" stink.  Depending on how they fail and how they are constructed, the possibility of catching fire is there, just hopefully not common.   

Halogens ARE NOT normal incandescent lights!  Most halogen lights that I am familiar with work similarly to CFL's in that they have an electronics board that steps up the normal wall outlet voltage to a high voltage to ionize the gas inside.

The circuitry that steps up the voltage will in most cases not like being dimmed in the way that X10 (and most other) dimming lamp modules accomplish dimming.

[JeffVolp]

Halogens ARE NOT normal incandescent lights!  Most halogen lights that I am familiar with work similarly to CFL's in that they have an electronics board that steps up the normal wall outlet voltage to a high voltage to ionize the gas inside.

We use a bunch of halogens here - 12V versions in the landscape lights, and 120V Sylvania "HaloFloods" for the dimmable ceiling lights.  All our halogens are just like incandescents, but produce a brighter "whiter" light.  The filament runs at higher temperature, causing the tungsten to evaporate faster.  The halogen atmosphere is supposed to cause that to re-deposit on the filament so it doesn't quickly burn out.  I understand the re-deposition doesn't work very well (or at all) when the lamp is dimmed.  However, the tungsten evaporation should also be slower with the filament running cooler when dimmed.  The 120V Sylvania HaloFloods work perfectly on dimmers, and we have yet had one burn out after several years.  I am not aware of any halogens that need the gas inside to be ionized.  Are they more efficient?  I would be interested in reading about that technology.

Jeff

[-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)]

Halogens ARE NOT normal incandescent lights!  Most halogen lights that I am familiar with work similarly to CFL's in that they have an electronics board that steps up the normal wall outlet voltage to a high voltage to ionize the gas inside.

We use a bunch of halogens here - 12V versions in the landscape lights, and 120V Sylvania "HaloFloods" for the dimmable ceiling lights.  All our halogens are just like incandescents, but produce a brighter "whiter" light.  The filament runs at higher temperature, causing the tungsten to evaporate faster.  The halogen atmosphere is supposed to cause that to re-deposit on the filament so it doesn't quickly burn out.  I understand the re-deposition doesn't work very well (or at all) when the lamp is dimmed.  However, the tungsten evaporation should also be slower with the filament running cooler when dimmed.  The 120V Sylvania HaloFloods work perfectly on dimmers, and we have yet had one burn out after several years.  I am not aware of any halogens that need the gas inside to be ionized.  Are they more efficient?  I would be interested in reading about that technology.

Jeff

You know Jeff, I must admit, even I don't know what I was thinking of when I posted that!   

Best I can figure is I still had CFL's on the brain.   

Thanks for pointing that out.  We have plenty of misinformation around here without me unintentionally contributing to it!

    

[evadorev]

i think i have some answers to your posts:

1- module burn down and module hum: when you use triacs at the undercurrent state with a magnetic load like the ballasts of CFL or HMI, the triac generates a lot of heat due to the incapacity of the triac to work on this state. that can cause the burn down of the module, the flickering light and the hum of the module. I saw this problem on professionnal stage lighting equipment i designed.

2- the spot on the exterior of the second module maybe caused by an arc generated by a loose connection on the power strip you tell us the module is plugged.

The difference between the dimmable CFL vs the non dimmable is on the dimmable, the circuit is electronics not magnetic ballasts, so if it tells to use incandescent only, use it. it will cost you a bit more but You can keep your house up this way !!!!!

Hope it helps !!!