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Author Topic: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1  (Read 53654 times)

ray4805

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 08:24:18 AM »

Hi

All the Hard wired Smoke Detectors I have seen in the US come with 3rd wire (this wire color does change between manufacturers)for interlinking, one detector goes off they all go off, its part of the code, not sure in all states, so all manufacturers make them this way, check out any in home depot. also click or cut and paste http://tinyurl.com/4vskoo9

So using the a relay off that 3rd wire would to me make sense its there, it switches so why not tap off it a  small relay would draw les current than another interconnected smoke detector. As it also supplies a current, it could be used to power the DS10a with a simple power supply. This of course is only an extension of the brillant idea to Marry a smoke detector to a DC10a, what a perfect couple for any household.

Ray

Hi
 my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.
Are you talking about a specific brand/model of smoke detector, because there is no "yellow wire" or "interlinking" standard.

If you are talking about the FIREX, it's probably DC since the system uses 9V battery backup.
Hi
 my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.
Are you talking about a specific brand/model of smoke detector, because there is no "yellow wire" or "interlinking" standard.

If you are talking about the FIREX, it's probably DC since the system uses 9V battery backup.
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Knightrider

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 10:21:52 AM »

I'm a Jolly Volly Firefighter, and I've got to say that I'm real uncomfortable with this idea.
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Brian H

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2011, 10:27:14 AM »

I also would not reccommend connecting anything not approved to a smoke detector setup.
If you are unfortunate and have a fire. Last thing you want is the insurance company and fire inspector to see an unapproved device connection.

Now if you installed a smoke detector just for triggering a DS10A and it was NOT part of the homes smoke detector network. That may work.
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dave w

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 11:08:14 AM »

Now if you installed a smoke detector just for triggering a DS10A and it was NOT part of the homes smoke detector network. That may work.
Yes this is the way to go. My battery powered detectors have a DC powered horn, same style as the battery horn on my bicycle of 30  40  50 years ago.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/fire/smoke4.htm the lower silver thing-a-ma-bob (technical term) on right side detector.

Detectors using a piezo alarm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smokealarm.JPG    the white gizmo (technical term) in upper left may not trigger a relay if it is driven by an oscillator circuit on the PC board.

Would be easy to drive a small relay from that voltage on the horn style alarm.

But like Knight and Brian, I would use a redundant detector solely dedicated to the security system.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 11:22:58 AM by dave w »
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ray4805

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2011, 01:11:28 PM »

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Brian H

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2011, 01:46:43 PM »

Since that module is approved for wired alarms.
I would think it could be used.
I still would NEVER count on an X10 signal as my primary safety alarm. As X10, even in the most reliable setup, is not always 100%.
Redundant or just an added notice would be OK.
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ray4805

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2011, 10:29:19 AM »

I do appreciate all comments on this forum, the smoke detector notification is for use when your not in the building, so it would not the primary source for safety.

I can also understand X10 not getting into the business of Smoke detectors, can you imagine the Liability that could be hanging over such a device. And the 3rd wire that pushes out 9v DC may not even run a relay.

So I will but one of those Kidde SM120X Smoke Alarm Relay Module ans see what its made of, is it possible to place photo's on this forum.

Ray
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Knightrider

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2011, 10:50:13 AM »

small pics can be attached to your post, and larger ones can be linked out of a pic hosting site


http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=10516.0
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:54:57 AM by Knightrider »
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ray4805

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2011, 11:13:19 AM »

Well I have just purchased 3 SM 120X moduls for thess than $27 inc carraige. $9 ea not worth messing with for that sort of money.
For those that may be interested here is the link http://tinyurl.com/4cgdosr That is $7.23 each and $4.90 shipping and handling. same $4.90 for one or more.

Thanks for all your input, once I get going on this X10 I will be back to ask more questions.

Looks like a grat forum to belong to.

Thanks
Ray
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Knightrider

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2011, 11:23:36 AM »

It's great to have you on this forum and I look forward to seeing your results.
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Knightrider

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 12:13:44 PM »

JUNE 19, 2011 UPDATE!!!

Last night one of my best friends lost his entire home due to a fire.  The house was located on a very rural road and well secluded in some woods.  My friend was spending the week-end over an hour away at his parents, and the fire was not discovered until flames had impinged the metal roof.  By the time I had figured out who's house it was, and got him there, there was only a foundation left.  The fire wasn't in my district, so I wasn't that concerned in the beginning until I put 2 and 2 together, and by that time the fire was 4 hours going.  Mind you, I didn't fight this fire, just held my buddy up from fainting.

Long story short, it wasn't a huge house, and he had 6 (yes 6) working smoke alarms, so he thought he was being extra careful.  If a smoke alarm goes off in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does the fire still happen?  YES!!!

We're going over today to sort the rubble.  In the weeks and months to come, he'll rebuild his house and his life, and I've personally taken it on myself to augment his new fire alarm system with some modified alarms as well.

These will not replace his main alerting system, but run by it's side.  I'll either hook him up with a CM15A and the powerflash module modified alarms, or a SC1200 and some DS12A modified detectors.  Either way, if a fire happens and he's not there, at least it won't burn (in theory) for a few hours before anyone knows about it.


Do not depend on these things to save you from a fire!!!!

In the fire service, our goals are for life safety, property conservation and incident containment.  The modified alarms will cover #2,  his main alarms will cover #1, my brothers in firefighting will take care of the rest.

Things can be replaced, lives cannot.
  I'm thankful that neither he or his wife or children were home, but.....


You can never be too careful. 
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HA Dave

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2011, 04:42:25 PM »

JUNE 19, 2011 UPDATE!!!
Things can be replaced, lives cannot. I'm thankful that neither he or his wife or children were home, but.....
Some things... can be replaced. My insurance, like most other peoples, insure the value of the home... not the size of it's mortgage. The recent fall in home prices may have more people at greater risk than they realize.

Knightrider, your work with X10 is very comprehensive and impressive. Far too often automation users forget about the benefits available with security and safety. Your smoke alarm mod would be a major added level of protection for many people. And at such a tiny cost.
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JMac

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2011, 04:54:16 PM »

And this mod (as well as the mod by James S) are not that difficult to accomplish.  Even if you just have it send a text message, it's peace of mind...........
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jediagh

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2011, 11:40:22 PM »

Where can I find the mod by James S?

I recall reading that someone used a FIRST ALERT SA720CN Photoelectric Sensor Smoke Alarms with Escape Light and a Radio Shack 5VDC/1A SPDT Micro Relay Catalog #: 275-240 along with a DS10A sensor.  But I can't seem to find the link anymore.
 B:(

In that thread their was a text image of how to wire the relay to the fire detector.  That is what I'm looking for.  Thanks!
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HA Dave

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Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 12:40:37 AM »

Where can I find the mod by James S?

Here:  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=13542.msg51611#msg51611

and (with a link) also here:  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=8251.msg50452#msg50452

I found other references to the same post a few times... I reviewed all (27) of James S's posts. I didn't see any images or diagrams.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 12:51:32 AM by Dave_x10_L »
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