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Author Topic: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?  (Read 14504 times)

paul warshawsky

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Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« on: July 08, 2008, 11:26:50 AM »

I know in the early days of AHP (when nothing worked and we all payed to be beta-testers) Michael Cole used to read and respond to let us know that X10 was listening.  (I miss him.)  It would be really nice if someone from X10 would just acknowledge the posts here to let us know that X10 is aware of the issues raised and will try to deal with them.  If not, there should be some other way of reporting bugs to them.  Early on the level of frustration from users was very high and the only reason many of us stuck with the product was knowledge that someone from X10 was listening and was trying to make things right.

I know it is a tiny issue but I have reported that bug about spinning down timer times on at least 3 occasions.  As a novice programmer I know this would take a few minutes to fix - why has it not been fixed??

My latest issue about the "Nighttime" condition is a glaring logical error - anyone who understands how the CM15a works should have been able to predict this would occur.  (I.e. if you understand how the CM15a combines AND and OR conditions you would see that NIGHTTIME cannot be combined with and AND condition.)

Part of the problem is that we the users have tried to figure out how the CM15a works without much help from the engineers.  This has resulted in many misconceptions which X10 engineers should not have.  For example, it has been clearly stated in these forums that only one limb of a conditional macro will execute (i.e. IF Condition is true THEN Macro A ELSE Macro B should only trigger one of the two macros.)  This is CLEARLY not the case - macros have to be written with explicit mutually exclusive conditions or else multiple limbs of the macro will fire simultaneously.

Another issue is that posts with false beliefs come up just as easily in searches as the truth!  This can be very confusing for someone who is trying to get started! 

How much would it cost X10 to have one of their engineers spend 1 hour per day reading and responding to these forums??  Some wonderful people have graciously volunteered their time to help people with there problems (and I appreciate all those of you who have helped me along the way) but that is not their job!  While some of them have figured out the inner workings of the CM15a pretty well, none of them has insider knowledge of the inner workings of this beast.  This would also allow X10 to get the wonderful feedback, comments and suggestions of their users in order to continue to improve this product and to design a better one in the future!

Anyhow, that's my little rant for now.  I wonder is anyone from X10 is listening...

Paul
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steven r

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2008, 12:21:24 PM »

Well expressed.

...Michael Cole used to read and respond to let us know that X10 was listening.  (I miss him.)...
A lot of us miss his interaction and feedback. He let us really let us know our concerns and feedback were being heard and that X10 hadn't forgotten us.

I think there is a lot of pressure to get things done with a limited staff these days. I optimistically believe that there are some X10 staff, including programmers, that do read the forum. Unfortunately responding would open a can of worms for them that would take a lot of time they don't have. It is unfortunate because feedback is a real adrenalin shot to us home automation junkies.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 12:30:56 PM by steven r »
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Walt2

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 08:47:04 AM »

I know in the early days of AHP (when nothing worked and we all payed to be beta-testers) Michael Cole used to read and respond to let us know that X10 was listening.  (I miss him.) 

You payed to be a beta tester?   I certainly was never charged.  Matter of fact, X10 provided me with the hardware/software free to test.

Yea, I miss Michael Cole too, and the relationship we built over the years.  I could always shoot him an email, even after formal beta testing was over, if I found a new bug.

My latest issue about the "Nighttime" condition is a glaring logical error - anyone who understands how the CM15a works should have been able to predict this would occur.  (I.e. if you understand how the CM15a combines AND and OR conditions you would see that NIGHTTIME cannot be combined with and AND condition.)
 
Being a programmer, I kind-of liked the graphical flowcharting style of entering a macro, that AH2/CM14A used.  With it, one could be very specific on how execution flowed.

BTW, for nighttime vs daytime, could not one use a single flag and thus eliminate the logical condition error?   I am not home right now, so I can't verify this myself, but I even think one of the flags is already pre-defined to be a day vs. night flag (can someone please confirm/deny that?).
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Noam

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 09:22:53 AM »

Walt -
I think he meant that we bought the hardware / software, and ended up being beta testers for it (as it hadn't been tested well enough before it was relesed).
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paul warshawsky

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 11:59:01 AM »

Walt,

Noam was right - I was being facetious.  I have since realized that using a flag for nighttime would be more convenient and am planning to try that.  Workarounds are not that difficult (for someone with some programming experience) but should not be necessary!  I was lucky to have been testing my macro at about 11:30 PM which is how I noticed that it worked before midnight but not after.  Can you imagine how difficult that might have been to track down?

Everyone is human and so the programmers at X10 are entitled to a few mistakes (ok - this is more like a lot of mistakes and some of them are pretty basic.)  I'm not even saying that they don't listen to feedback (I assume they DO read this section and incorporate fixes into the update.)  My area of expertise is not marketing, but I believe that it is not just important to listen to feedback but also to APPEAR to listen to feedback.  What I'm saying is it would just be nice to receive a post/message/e-mail from X10 saying: "We read your post, you're right this is a bug.  We will get right on it and it will be corrected by the next update."  How long would this take?  How much goodwill would this create among the users?

Anyhow, that's just my humble opinion.  The good news is that the support of other users is usually enough to get most buyers up and running and this forum has really been helpful with that.

Paul
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dave w

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 12:30:58 PM »

What I'm saying is it would just be nice to receive a post/message/e-mail from X10 saying: "We read your post, you're right this is a bug.  We will get right on it and it will be corrected by the next update."  How long would this take?  How much goodwill would this create among the users?

Anyhow, that's just my humble opinion.  The good news is that the support of other users is usually enough to get most buyers up and running and this forum has really been helpful with that.

Paul

IMHO

I doubt X10 will ever respond to the forum on any regular basis because it requires man power and opens Pandoras box...

Admitedly X10 makes installation of security, automation, and CCTV sound like easy "plug-n-play" and we all know it ain't. However many complaints or requests for help that I see on the forum could have been avoided by reading the instructions, which apperently few people do any more. ie "I got a "motion thing" on "frequency A1" and at night the bedroom light comes on, what kind of junk is this???"

I think X10 wants the "Customer Service" filter for a lot of this. Besides not responding gives plausable deniability.

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steven r

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »

...I believe that it is not just important to listen to feedback but also to APPEAR to listen to feedback.  What I'm saying is it would just be nice to receive a post/message/e-mail from X10 saying: "We read your post, you're right this is a bug.  We will get right on it and it will be corrected by the next update."  How long would this take?  How much goodwill would this create among the users?...
I agree but if my belief is correct that management has not made this a priority (i.e. Allotted paid time for someone to this.) then for someone already overworked to post a response would make themselves a target for every  complaint legitimate or not.

I tend to bend over backwards to help people but have learned that sometimes I have to stop and give myself priority. e.g. If I were a programmer at X10 expected to get a project done in less time than it should realistically take to be reliably released, I know that I'd have to resist making myself the forum customer service target.
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Walt2

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 08:52:36 PM »

I'm not even saying that they don't listen to feedback (I assume they DO read this section and incorporate fixes into the update.)  My area of expertise is not marketing, but I believe that it is not just important to listen to feedback but also to APPEAR to listen to feedback.  What I'm saying is it would just be nice to receive a post/message/e-mail from X10 saying: "We read your post, you're right this is a bug.  We will get right on it and it will be corrected by the next update."  How long would this take?  How much goodwill would this create among the users?
 
I can say, after beta-testing many products over the years, X10 tends to be selective to the type of feedback they want.  One example, I complained a lot about AHP "graying out" items when selected.  For just about every other Windows' application, the standard is that not only is a "grayed out" item not selected, being "grayed out" means it is not even available for selection.  I got no where with that feedback.

Another example, was the 5in1 programmable remote.  Everyone beta testing complained about the "Power" button meaning "All Lights On" when in X10 mode.  Yea, it was user error to assume the remote was left in TV mode, when it was actually in X10 mode.  So, when we intended to simply turn 'on' our TV, we instead did something rather drastic like turning 'on' every single light in the house.   We all suggested some alternatives, but X10 really had no interest in that sort of feedback.
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zach1234

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 12:28:51 AM »

Agree when you are testing and GIVE FEED BACK they don't want to hear, they don't want anything to do with you. I did not agree with the emailing system and they removed me from the beta test.  ROFL  BTW guys x10 says they offer 24/7 support if you pay for there extended plan WHERES THAT SUPPORT. They like to play games likewise, they assume if you sound young you are Young, not my fault I have to use Skye to make my calls, I would agree I sound like a 4 year old but that's the sound quality on a Sony Mylo communicator. All I have to say is they have a lovely Better business bureau reputation see it here: http://www.vegasbbb.org/rptrel.asp?bbbid=56692#bci and here: http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=114&bbb=1296&firm=78000149

I can bet this will be removed, they will break freedom of speech part of the 1 and 14 amendment.
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-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 01:37:23 AM »

Agree when you are testing and GIVE FEED BACK they don't want to hear, they don't want anything to do with you. I did not agree with the emailing system and they removed me from the beta test.  ROFL  BTW guys x10 says they offer 24/7 support if you pay for there extended plan WHERES THAT SUPPORT. They like to play games likewise, they assume if you sound young you are Young, not my fault I have to use Skye to make my calls, I would agree I sound like a 4 year old but that's the sound quality on a Sony Mylo communicator. All I have to say is they have a lovely Better business bureau reputation see it here: http://www.vegasbbb.org/rptrel.asp?bbbid=56692#bci and here: http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=114&bbb=1296&firm=78000149

I can bet this will be removed, they will break freedom of speech part of the 1 and 14 amendment.

As stated in General Forum Etiquette -- PLEASE READNOTICE: "All posts to the X10 Community Forums become the property of X10 and may be moved, edited, and/or deleted as seen fit by X10 or an appointed agent representing X10".

Translation: This board is the property of X10 just like a bulletin board in your local grocery store, etc.  What the proprietor decides to allow on that board is solely up to them.

Your post above is the equivalent of spray-painting that board with "This store sucks!  Don't shop here!".  It is more like vandalism than "free speech".   How long do you expect the local grocer would wait before painting over or replacing that board?

Why is it that the ones that shout the loudest about "freedom of speech" are usually the ones that know they are guilty of breaking the rules?   ???
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In the real world, the only constant is change.

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zach1234

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 01:50:20 AM »

I was told by X10 Josh that Freedom of speech is allowed, and I could say x10 is (insert someting here) and it is allowed and they cant do anything about it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 10:34:21 AM by Paradise Automation X10 Installer »
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-Bill- (of wgjohns.com)

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Re: Do we know if someone from X10 reads these?
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 01:55:51 AM »

I was told by X10 Josh that Freedom of speech is allowed, and I could say x10 is (insert someting here) and it is allowed.

That doesn't change the fact that you implying that deleting your post would be a violation of "freedom of speech" was incorrect.    ::)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 02:07:14 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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