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Author Topic: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.  (Read 27279 times)

bitman

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'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« on: June 15, 2008, 07:44:04 PM »

Um, a (Quiet) Appliance controller with a solid state relay.

Duh...

http://idobartana.com/hakb/modifying_lamp_module.htm

Scroll down to: Modification to a silent appliance module or universal module

Why do we have to have appliance controllers that go CLACK! but we can have lamp controllers
that feature "soft start" because it's easy on the eyes. I can't believe this is a mature technology. - but I love it.

 ::)

:Ron



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Charles Sullivan

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 12:15:09 AM »

Um, a (Quiet) Appliance controller with a solid state relay.

Duh...

http://idobartana.com/hakb/modifying_lamp_module.htm

Scroll down to: Modification to a silent appliance module or universal module

Why do we have to have appliance controllers that go CLACK! but we can have lamp controllers
that feature "soft start" because it's easy on the eyes. I can't believe this is a mature technology. - but I love it.

 ::)

:Ron

The major problem with using a triac in an appliance module is that the 0.5-1.0 volt forward voltage drop in the triac would result in excessive power dissipation at the 15 Amp rating of the module.

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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 09:23:25 AM »

I'm doing it anyway. 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 09:28:30 AM by bitman »
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dave w

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 12:04:03 PM »

FWIW
I also would like to see an appliance module using a SSR. But a SSR can not handle the power that the appliance module relay can. I doubt X10 will spend the design time and bucks to make the appliance module quiet.

The smarthome.com appliance module is much quieter than the X10 unit.
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 04:35:19 PM »

FWIW
I also would like to see an appliance module using a SSR. But a SSR can not handle the power that the appliance module relay can. I doubt X10 will spend the design time and bucks to make the appliance module quiet.

The smarthome.com appliance module is much quieter than the X10 unit.

Thanks for the smarthome info. I'm going to silent an X10 unit  for a particular low current (neon night light) style "ON AIR" light that
I can put in a remote recording location. The CLACK! would be hard on the "talent" after while, but indeed a small "click" might wake up
a despondent Johny Rock star enough to pay attention along with the little glowing light.  :D
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dave w

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 05:04:25 PM »


The CLACK! would be hard on the "talent" after while, but indeed a small "click" might wake up
a despondent Johny Rock star enough to pay attention along with the little glowing light.  :D

Hah! Pretty funny. I worked at an industrial video studio and we had to use air horns to bring our talent out of their comas. :D

If your requirement is under 150 watts, have you tried a Socket Rocket? Since they can not DIM,  I use them for ON-OFF control small inductive loads (wall warts, outdoor light transformer, LED lights, etc.) and they work fine. No noise, no local control, so no leakage current making LEDs or CFLs flicker.
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Brian H

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 06:27:30 PM »

I did the Sharp SSR version of the mod. Works very well. That said I also removed the local sensing circuit completely. If you neon light still glows let us know. I would have to study the mod you are thinking of as it may or may not remove all the sensing components.
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 08:32:11 PM »

I did the Sharp SSR version of the mod. Works very well. That said I also removed the local sensing circuit completely. If you neon light still glows let us know. I would have to study the mod you are thinking of as it may or may not remove all the sensing components.

Yup the neon glowed a little with an un molested appliance controller so I too disabled local control on the lamp controller that will get
the SSR. (Clipped D10 I think it was).  I'm expecting to have a glow when off as I found this little tidbit last night at http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/semiconductor_relays.html#troubleshoot when boning up on SSRs

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The load turns on okay, but never seems to turn off, unless I remove power from the relay entirely. What might be happening?

This is normally a problem when using an SSR with a high-impedance load, such as a neon lamp or a small solenoid. Loads like these often have relatively large initial currents, but relatively small hold in currents. The result is that the off-state leakage current through the relay (see previous section) is insufficient to cause the load to turn on to start with, but sufficient to keep it on, once started. The solution to this is to place a power resistor, sized for 810 times the rated maximum leakage current for the SSR in parallel with the load.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the maximum leakage current acoring to the datasheet is .1 ma if I recall.
.1 * 810 = 81 (ohms?) At what wattage I wonder.  - I expect I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. 

- Might just parallel a small incandecent light if it get to be too much of a pain.

:Ron

« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 08:35:34 PM by bitman »
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2008, 06:28:51 PM »

I got my SSR from mouser today. I'll solder it in and let you know how it smokes... um... goes.
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 08:54:43 PM »

Worked like a charm. I had to STUFF the SSR into that case but it all closed up after a small fight.

The neon still glowed whan off and local control defeated so I plugged the neon into an extention cord with an incandecent night light plugged into that extention cord too. That took care of the glow but I would rather us a power resistor in place of the incandecent but don't have a good idea as to what value/wattage might be correct.


:Ron
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 09:02:12 PM by bitman »
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Brian H

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 06:53:39 AM »

Try removing R3 100K 1/2W from the module. It is in the sensing circuit and maybe the culprit. I removed it in my Sharp SSR mod.
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 09:36:12 AM »

Dunka.  ;D
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bitman

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 10:35:45 PM »

Try removing R3 100K 1/2W from the module. It is in the sensing circuit and maybe the culprit. I removed it in my Sharp SSR mod.

Dood,

That did it!  :)% Neon goes on, Neon goes OFF!

Thank you sooooo much.

:Ron
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Brian H

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Re: 'Nuther X-10 Product Suggestion.
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 06:58:15 AM »

:)% OK Thanks for the update.
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