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Author Topic: The curse of the Sony Vaios! Was:Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.  (Read 21589 times)

bitman

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I attempted to extend the range of my CM15a by wrapping some solid wire around the antenna as per a suggestion by one of the elders here and by George that worked great!.

The CM15 is in the basement with me and all my modules. So I took the modified CM15a upstairs and plugged it into a socket and lo and behold the wireless remote was still taking to it and controls those basement modules when I was in the basement with even the door closed. So I moved the CM15a to the bathroom off the basement where a TM751 used to work and nada, except I could control 1 out of 6 modules. Wow!, well it is a GFI socket so I put the CM15 in a socket in the laundry room - no go! except I could control that same 1 out of six modules. So I moved it out to the garage where I originally ran a TM751 for years with AH and no Go! - except for that same one module.

Furthermore I can stand right next to the CM15a with my wire less remote and no control over the problem modules so it's not a range issue but a socket issue. The CM15a is not polarized so I can flip it upside down in the socket and end run a phase coupling issue (yes no?).
That changes nothing by the way.

In any case, my tm751 used to work as a basement module controller in all these sockets that the CM15a will not.
However I can take that CM15a and put it upstairs WAY away from me in the basement and control it wirelessly from the basement .

I wanted to put a BVC machine in the garage or laundry room off the basement but darn it, the CM15a won't work there, much.

BTW - the six modules under control are the same x10 appliance controllers and the one that turns on no matter what is plugged into a cheapo power strip. Others are on cheapo strips and some are directly plugged into the wall.

 ???

:Ron


« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 08:12:04 PM by bitman »
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HA Dave

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 08:02:18 PM »

...........So I moved the CM15a to the bathroom off the basement where a TM751 used to work and nada, ........... So I moved it out to the garage where I originally ran a TM751 for years with AH and no Go!

This would tell me that the CM15A isn't transceiving.... at least not in all the House codes.
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Knightrider

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 08:17:38 PM »

... The CM15a is not polarized so I can flip it upside down in the socket and end run a phase coupling issue (yes no?).
That changes nothing by the way.




Flipping the cm15a does nothing to help the phases. A standard 240 volt setup consists of 2 120 volt lines that are "phased" with one another. As one side goes positive 170 volts, the other side goes negative 170 volts. The neutral is the zero reference line.

A phase coupler can only be installed on a 240v lead.

PS: I know that the above information will lead to much discussion. ;)
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dave w

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2009, 08:37:45 PM »

... The CM15a is not polarized so I can flip it upside down in the socket and end run a phase coupling issue (yes no?).
That changes nothing by the way.




Flipping the cm15a does nothing to help the phases. A standard 240 volt setup consists of 2 120 volt lines that are "phased" with one another. As one side goes positive 170 volts, the other side goes negative 170 volts. The neutral is the zero reference line.

A phase coupler can only be installed on a 240v lead.

PS: I know that the above information will lead to much discussion. ;)

Yes it will. You are absolutely wrong about the 170 volts.....it would be 169.68 volts. :-*
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 08:39:36 PM by dave w »
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Knightrider

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 08:43:02 PM »

You are absolutely wrong about the 170 volts.....it would be 169.68 volts. :-*

you're lucky that I didn't revert to my old ways and refer to 110 Volts rofl

Thanks Dave
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dave w

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 09:01:10 PM »

155.54?
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bitman

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 09:29:35 PM »

...........So I moved the CM15a to the bathroom off the basement where a TM751 used to work and nada, ........... So I moved it out to the garage where I originally ran a TM751 for years with AH and no Go!

This would tell me that the CM15A isn't transceiving.... at least not in all the House codes.

Sorry I forgot to say, The units under control are on house code M. The cm51 is configured to transceive on house code M and the remote is  dialed to M as well. I can walk it around the house and yup, it does not like some sockets. Sockets that the tm751 works ok in.
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Jsnlong

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 09:32:54 PM »

It seems like in your case and other post on here that the CM15 might have a weaker output then other transceiver?
MAybe
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Charles Sullivan

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 11:26:39 AM »

It seems like in your case and other post on here that the CM15 might have a weaker output then other transceiver?
MAybe

As I recall the various plug-in controllers and transceivers transmit (or did at one time transmit) a signal voltage about 5-10V, whereas the computer interfaces are limited to 3-4V.

One posted comment about this asserted that European regulations limit the signal (apparently considered "noise" on the powerline) to 5V max, but I haven't verified that.

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steven r

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Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 12:22:06 PM »

...it would be 169.68 volts. :-*
I got 169.705627 but that was of course assuming that the 120 V RMS was accurate to 6 decimal places and using my phone calculated value of √2 as 1.414214. If, however, the RMS voltage of 120 was only measured to the accuracy of 1 volt then the answer must be expressed as the rounded figure of 170 V. Your answer can never be more accurate than the least of the figures used in the computation. That's why you just said 170 V, Knightrider. Right? ;)

For those that Knightrider lost and have run and stuck their voltmeters in the outlet and measured 120V, the formula is:

    V
rms = Vp / √2 Where Vp represents the peak voltage.
[/list]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square...

    Because of their usefulness in carrying out power calculations, listed voltages for power outlets, e.g. 120 V (USA) or 230 V (Europe), are almost always quoted in RMS values, and not peak values. Peak values can be calculated from RMS values from the above formula, which implies Vp = VRMS √2, assuming the source is a pure sine wave. Thus the peak value of the mains voltage in the USA is about 120 √2, or about 170 volts. The peak-to-peak voltage, being twice this, is about 340 volts. A similar calculation indicates that the peak-to-peak mains voltage in Europe is about 650 volts.
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    dave w

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    Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
    « Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 01:03:12 PM »

    Rats, calculator needed new batteries.
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    Knightrider

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    Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
    « Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 01:24:09 PM »

    Really, I was just bored due to the ice/snow storm socking me in around here and wanted to generate a spark at the forum.  Often times I
    use an antique method of running my calculations around here (it's called a pencil, I think).  170 always works for my intentions.
    I haven't been disappointed by my fellow x10-ers pointing out the fact that the whole 120 volt thing is a RMS value.  I just wish that someone out there with that high-fangled fast internet would post a graphic of the sine wave illustrating the the two sides of the service and the phase shift.
    Maybe even some of you uber-geeks out there might drum up the whole 3 phase thing?
    At any rate,  GREAT JOB friend.

    Ich Bin Ein x10-er
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    dave w

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    Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
    « Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 03:43:29 PM »

    Yeah, we got hammered with snow today also. Can't even get the car out of garage (west central Indiana, not real far from you). I am so disappointed at missing work.
    « Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 03:45:33 PM by dave w »
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    steven r

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    Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
    « Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 04:21:34 PM »

    ...I just wish that someone out there with that high-fangled fast internet would post a graphic of the sine wave illustrating the the two sides of the service and the phase shift....
    This is an interesting link the covers some of the basics if anyone is interested.

    http://electronics-for-beginners.com/pages/page/1050/
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    dellzip

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    Re: Curious issue with a CM15a - Surprise Surprise.
    « Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 04:50:04 PM »

    ...I just wish that someone out there with that high-fangled fast internet would post a graphic of the sine wave illustrating the the two sides of the service and the phase shift....
    This is an interesting link the covers some of the basics if anyone is interested.

    http://electronics-for-beginners.com/pages/page/1050/
    Thanks!!!
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