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Author Topic: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge  (Read 79513 times)

HA Dave

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Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« on: February 21, 2009, 01:40:39 PM »

Occupancy sensing... or knowledge of... if someone (or better who) is in the home has always been complicated at best. Many threads have dedicated to just controlling the lighting in a room based on wether or not a motion sensor could determind if someone was in a room.

The best "person at home" detection I can recall reading about was a parking switch for a car in the garage. But I can't seem to find the thread to link to from here. I also recall an idea of using DS10's connected to a cars ignition system... and some sort of macro.

I recently viewed a YouTube Video about Bill Gate's RFID enabled Home Automation. Bill apparently uses RFID tags for Occupancy Sensing and HA occupancy knowledge. Well if that's good enough for Bill... it's likely good enough for me too. Bill Gates and I have a lot in comman. Nether one of us finished college... and we both have low water volume flush toilet's.

Of course... Bill Gates has been more productive than myself... so he can better afford such toys. I am looking for a simple, easy, X10, and/or PC/Software solution to knowing who is home. So the appropriate macro(s) could be run.. based on occupancy.

If a simple... or at least NOT too complicated and expense solution can be found... the benefits could be enormous. As I drive away from home.. the alarm could be automatically turned on, and lights left on... turned off. If I was to forget to close the garage door on my way to work (or wherever)... the home could call my cell phone and let me know... before I even turn off of my street. If everyone is home at bedtime... the alarm could be set automatically. Yet mowing the grass or relaxing on the deck... shouldn't be misinterpreted as anything other than being "at home".

The task is over my head! So I've asked Bill- (of wgjohns.com) to help out. But I would really like ANY INPUT... for-all-I-know... someone here has already resolved this problem.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 01:45:35 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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steven r

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 02:36:25 PM »

...The best "person at home" detection I can recall reading about was a parking switch for a car in the garage. But I can't seem to find the thread to link to from here...
You might of been referring to my post, http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=8304.msg71554#msg71554.
That mechanical switch finally failed and I switched a different arrangement that has a pressure switch attached to a plastic tube.
I live alone so detecting my presence is substantially easier than it would be for multiple people.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 02:40:50 PM by steven r »
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 02:50:08 PM »


You might of been referring to my post, http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=8304.msg71554#msg71554.

THATS IT!!! And thank-you steven r. Sorry I didn't remember it was you... or was able to find it. Yes living alone makes it easier... but I really like my wife... and asking her to leave to make for better automation is the very last resort.
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astrothug

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 03:40:55 PM »

I seen something on youtube that had a door mate and a censer on it that would tell the computer someone was at the door and if they had a censer in the shoe that would say the persons name once they came into the house...

very cool...

 
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DB

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 07:42:12 PM »

I have been looking for some type of logic software as well. Home domination works on xp but I had no success with vista 64. It has the capability of setting modes (at home,away,night etc. ) and rudimentary occupancy sensing. I have never had much success with the flags in AHP to accomplish any type of logic. If you are looking for ideas, it would be nice to see software that works on these modes, that can be disabled or enabled manually or automatically by the software when events occur. Ex Motion sensor 1 tripped outside, the motion sensor 2 tripped inside front door within a certain time frame to indicate you have entered your premises, mode set to "at home" automatically and announced by text to speech with a greeting. Instead of minimal evening lighting occurring at dusk, the system would know you are home and set brighter evening lighting. I downloaded visual basic 2008 express to start working on creating something to accomplish these tasks but I am no programmer. Bill and tuiceman seem to be miles ahead and adding this functionality to their already great programs would be great.
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 09:00:45 PM »

I have been looking for some type of logic software as well. Home domination works on xp but I had no success with vista 64.

Nothing works with 64 (with the exception.. maybe.. of some games). At some point some time n the future... that has to change.

I have never had much success with the flags in AHP to accomplish any type of logic. If you are looking for ideas, it would be nice to see software that works on these modes, that can be disabled or enabled manually or automatically by the software when events occur.

I am not much of a software basher. We HA buffs are a rare group. We are very lucky that AHP, its software, and the CM15A are here. But I appreciate a sunny day too.

Ex Motion sensor 1 tripped outside, the motion sensor 2 tripped inside front door within a certain time frame to indicate you have entered your premises, mode set to "at home" automatically and announced by text to speech with a greeting. Instead of minimal evening lighting occurring at dusk, the system would know you are home and set brighter evening lighting.

I have also considered a complex set of instructions/macros. But if I created them for me and my circumstances... how would that help you. Or the other way around. I think if we all work at these things together... we all benefit.. together. I really like steven r's idea... maybe I can modifity it for the wifes car.

I downloaded visual basic 2008 express to start working on creating something to accomplish these tasks but I am no programmer. Bill and tuiceman seem to be miles ahead and adding this functionality to their already great programs would be great.

Yes.

I am such a big fan of BVC.. I almost hate to mention that (it works it way into many of my posts). I am still a newbie with some of Tuicemen's software... but I like alot of what I've seen.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 11:51:49 PM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 09:02:49 PM »

I seen something on youtube that had a door mate and a censer on it that would tell the computer someone was at the door and if they had a censer in the shoe that would say the persons name once they came into the house...

I am searching for a link to that!
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BaBaLou.

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 08:44:53 AM »

I can consider myself lucky in this case.

The wife and I have 2 separate garage doors and each has its own set of commands and macros to work accordingly for each of our purpose. The kids have their own key pad entry and have a setup for them when they come home from school and neither my wife or my self might be home at that time. Still don't have the DS7000 working with AHP yet due to the 3.236v issues and still wanting to use the VA12A.

But I do recall the days when going to the gas station and running over those Ding Dong cable strung over the pump area just to let the owner that he has a customer.
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 10:06:25 AM »

The wife and I have 2 separate garage doors and each has its own set of commands and macros to work accordingly for each of our purpose. ........Still don't have the DS7000 working with AHP yet due to the 3.236v issues

I think steven r really has something with his "car counter" idea. Even if I can only use that to count one of us... since it's just the wife and I... that would be half done. I really do feel and believe that it will be something as simple as car counting. I had found a software called Bluetooth connector that could simplify things.

I read a post once... somewhere.. about a guy that constructed a keyholder that he mounted near the entry. The keyholder had mechanical switches that were turned on or off by hanging or removing keys. The weight of the keys triggered a PowerFlash module to send an ON... removing the keys sent an OFF. As family members came and left they hung or retrieved keys from their assigned hook on the holder. Whereas I admire such a simple concept... I can see the WAF plummet... if I was to assume I can assign key parking areas.

....... Still don't have the DS7000 working with AHP yet due to the 3.236v issues

Ditto... although it worked for a while for me... it also crashed. I feel confident X10 will sooner or later get this fixed. AND... I have acquired extra security remotes and a Universal Module... so I can hack a solution if need be.
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 02:49:23 PM »

I don't want to give the forum members the impression that I am obsessed with this "occupancy sensing project"... even though I am. But, I've been playing with the idea of "car counting" somemore.

I have an idea of using the tiny remotes... like the SlimFire (KR19A). Which when pressed sends the assigned X10 RF signal... but even if the button remains pressed... the signal stops sending after about two seconds. Hacking a KR19A (or KR22A) would allow me to count as many cars as I could ever need to count. Car counting using remotes or even DS10A's isn't my idea alone... or even new.

I think.. I would need to use a 12 volt relay that would cause the ON signal to be sent when the car/truck is started... and then (reversed) so an OFF signal would be sent when the car/truck is turned off. Is there a mechanic here that could ofter any info/advice as to how or where to connect such a device.

I know... counting cars isn't a complete solution to occupancy sensing. But it's a darn good start. Not just for me... but for most people. If the wife's and my car can both be counted (ie a monitored code shows both cars as home) yet no activity shows inside the home... it would be a reasonable assumption that we at outside doing yardwork, walking, or just enjoying the deck. So... "both cars home" (as an AHP macro) could avoid arming the alarm or delay BVC announcements that: mail has arrived, the sump pump was on, the doorbell has rang (and video was recorded).

This is turning out to be a big... and by far.. the most complex project that I have ever attempted. But I think the pay off (as a automation advantage) could be huge.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 02:47:24 AM by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) »
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steven r

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 07:06:46 PM »

...I would need to use a 12 volt relay that would cause the ON signal to be sent when the car/truck is started... and then (reversed) so an OFF signal would be sent when the car/truck is turned off. Is there a mechanic here that could ofter any info/advice as to how or where to connect such a device....
Well I'm not a mechanic but turning the key to start is a momentary connection. So I'm not sure if tapping the starter line would be a good idea but in theory it would work.
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Knightrider

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 10:01:54 PM »

this will be flakey for now, but a SPDT or better yet DPDT relay connected to the ACC circuit would trip one contact when power was applied, and another when the power is dropped.  The only problem that I foresee is that when you initially turn the key, ACC comes on, but ACC goes off when the starter is engaged.  Therefore, you would have a rapid fire of ON/OFF/ON when you started the car and I'm wondering if X10 is fast enough to process the sequence.

Clear as mud, right?
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 10:57:51 PM »

...  I foresee.. when you initially turn the key, ACC comes on, but ACC goes off when the starter is engaged. 

Yes... I can see that... but HADN'T thought of that. I wonder... if there is a circuit that is more associated with a running engine.
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steven r

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 03:32:05 AM »

...if there is a circuit that is more associated with a running engine.
Do your car doors lock when the engine is started?
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HA Dave

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Re: Occupancy Sensing/Knowledge
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 09:05:33 AM »

Do your car doors lock when the engine is started?

The newer one does. I also have a small older pickup truck... and it doesn't. But it's OK with me if each vehicle is connected differently. I need to wire up a relay "test device" and do some testing. And maybe do a little searching at the automotive forums.
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