Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The Buster PiX10Hub is here! Created by the Community, for the Community.:)% #:)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times  (Read 23069 times)

KenWong

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 8
Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« on: June 11, 2009, 11:57:14 PM »

I guess due to noise on myhome  lines, I need to send a command several times before a module will turn on or off.  This feature is available when you want to set a timer.

How do you write a macro that will continue to send an "On" signal to a module when it might not get the first or subsequent signals due to line noise?

Much Thanks

Ken
Logged

HA Dave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 174
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 09:53:29 AM »

I guess due to noise on my home  lines, I need to send a command several times before a module will turn on or off. 

That phrase "I guess due to" jumps out at me. My experience would be that if you have line noise... you will not have reliability.... no matter how many times a signal is sent. You can add a sec delay and repeat the on/off function in your macro... as many times as you desire. But if you have a noise generating device messing up your setup.. it would be better to track it down and filter it.

Logged
Home Automation is an always changing technology

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 137
  • Posts: 6059
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 08:40:43 PM »

I guess due to noise on my home  lines, I need to send a command several times before a module will turn on or off. 
But if you have a noise generating device messing up your setup.. it would be better to track it down and filter it.
FWIW
I concur, but also offer suggestion of a repeater. It sounds like you might be right on the cusp of noise OR X10 attenuation through phase coupling (or lack there of) being the problem.
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

KenWong

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 8
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2009, 08:46:49 AM »

Thanks to both Dave's for your suggestions.  I was hoping to avoid the time of having to turn circuit breakers on and off etc to ID the one or multiple offending electrical appliances or CFL's, which I have tons of these lights now around the house after going green, and then I have read there is no one good filter.  One filter is good for one frequency while another is good for another.

The repeater sounds like an easier/cheaper attempt at a fix.  I could not Google an example of one to buy.  Would you please recommend one or two?

Thanks

Ken
Logged

Boiler

  • Guest
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2009, 09:49:38 AM »

Thanks to both Dave's for your suggestions.  I was hoping to avoid the time of having to turn circuit breakers on and off etc to ID the one or multiple offending electrical appliances or CFL's, which I have tons of these lights now around the house after going green, and then I have read there is no one good filter.  One filter is good for one frequency while another is good for another.

The repeater sounds like an easier/cheaper attempt at a fix.  I could not Google an example of one to buy.  Would you please recommend one or two?

Thanks

Ken

The answer depends on whether you currently have a phase coupler installed and whether you have access to add a repeater near your load panel.

The ultimate solution (in my mind) would be a XTB-IIR mounted next to your load panel.  The XTB-IIR will allow you to plug a CM15a directly into it's 120V "digital input" and will boost the output signals to 30Vp-p.  If it isn't convenient for you to mount your CM15a in this location, the XTB-IIR will also function as a typical repeater and boost valid X10 transmissions that it detects on the Powerline.  This device requires connection to a dedicated 220V breaker (or two 120V breakers on opposite phases) in order to function. 

If you already have a passive coupler installed, you could consider a plug in XTB booster.  This is the "little brother" of the XTB-IIR and will boost X10 powerline signals to 20Vp-p.  It's easy to install since it simply plugs into an outlet, but it requires a passive coupler installed across the power line phases to transfer signals to the opposite phase.

Give us a bit more info on your install (home size, panel access, access to 220V dryer outlets, devices installed) and we can do a better job of recommending a solution.

The XTB series is the brainchild of Jeff Volp.  His site has a lot of extremely helpful information on X10 troubleshooting: Jeff Volp Homepage.  Jeff is also active on this forum and can provide far better details on the use of the XTB series of repeaters.

Boiler
 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 08:48:25 PM by Boiler »
Logged

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 137
  • Posts: 6059
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2009, 06:05:40 PM »

I second the XTB-IIR motion.

This is a flame thrower of a repeater with the highest output on the market. I have many noise sources at our home, and find a high output repeater can boost the X10 signal high enough that filters are not needed.

I have an ACT234 repeater which is an outstanding repeater, but does not have the output of the XTB-IIR. However the ACT234 can over come all my noise from CFLs and switching power supllies sprinkled liberally around the house. I need one filter on the microwave and I probably would not need that if I had purchased the XTB-IIR instead.
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

HA Dave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 174
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2009, 08:16:50 PM »

I second the XTB-IIR motion.

Oh crap.... I didn't know we were voting on this. I always like to vote early! I also vote that KenWong buys one of Jeff's XTB series of repeaters.
Logged
Home Automation is an always changing technology

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 137
  • Posts: 6059
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 12:32:46 PM »


Oh crap.... I didn't know we were voting on this. I always like to vote early! I also vote that KenWong buys one of Jeff's XTB series of repeaters.

Oops, sorry, I invoked parliamentary procedure without thinking...but since we don't have a quorum, I don't think it matters.
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

HA Dave

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 174
  • Posts: 7029
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 01:55:47 PM »

....... I invoked parliamentary procedure..

Not really. I don't have much electronic education or knowledge. So... I generally try not to comment on items I haven't actually used myself. Of course... I have a LOT of X10.

My home isn't too large... and its just the wife and me. As it happened.. my home was really pretty easy to automate. I only use a passive phase coupler and have yet (fingers, arms, and legs crossed) to purchase a filter. However I've read so many GREAT reports and posts about Jeff's XTB series of repeaters... if I was to redo my setup I would most certainly use one.
Logged
Home Automation is an always changing technology

KenWong

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 8
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 07:59:05 PM »

Thanks guys for your input!

I was going to wait until next week to respond as I asked my "amatuer electrician" cousin to come over inspect by fusebox and  answer Boiler's questions:

"Give us a bit more info on your install (home size, panel access, access to 220V dryer outlets, devices installed) and we can do a better job of recommending a solution."


However, I read Jeff Volp's website and at a minimum I think I will get his fully assembled XTB-IIR amplifier.  For a non-electrician like me, is it very hard to install the passive coupler? i.e, is there splicing of wires or is it plug and play?  I did install my x-10 wall receptacles but I was nervous the whole time and had to call my cousin frequently just to double check stuff.  The thought of playing with 220 volt stuff is daunting!

To answer some of Boiler's questions though, my house is 3600 sq ft of which a part of it is a guest house using the same electrical lines.  The guest house must be on the same "phase" as my controller as the x-10 modules back there have no problem getting signals.  I have the Active Home Pro, Security system and about 16 x-10 modules.  I have access to the 220 volt dryer outlet which is next to the "panel"... I hope panel and fuse box are synonymous.

Hope this is descriptive enough.

Ken
Logged

Boiler

  • Guest
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 07:22:15 AM »

Thanks guys for your input!

I was going to wait until next week to respond as I asked my "amatuer electrician" cousin to come over inspect by fusebox and  answer Boiler's questions:

"Give us a bit more info on your install (home size, panel access, access to 220V dryer outlets, devices installed) and we can do a better job of recommending a solution."


However, I read Jeff Volp's website and at a minimum I think I will get his fully assembled XTB-IIR amplifier.  For a non-electrician like me, is it very hard to install the passive coupler? i.e, is there splicing of wires or is it plug and play?  I did install my x-10 wall receptacles but I was nervous the whole time and had to call my cousin frequently just to double check stuff.  The thought of playing with 220 volt stuff is daunting!

To answer some of Boiler's questions though, my house is 3600 sq ft of which a part of it is a guest house using the same electrical lines.  The guest house must be on the same "phase" as my controller as the x-10 modules back there have no problem getting signals.  I have the Active Home Pro, Security system and about 16 x-10 modules.  I have access to the 220 volt dryer outlet which is next to the "panel"... I hope panel and fuse box are synonymous.

Hope this is descriptive enough.

Ken

Hello again Ken,

The terms FUSE Panel, Breaker Panel, Load Panel are roughly synonymous.  They are the point of electrical distribution for the home. 

One point though - does your panel actually have "FUSES" or does it contain circuit breakers?  If it contains FUSES, it may be difficult for you to add circuits (additional fuses) to the panel.  If your panel contains circuit breakers, are there open "slots" for additional breakers?

From your description, you have a moderate sized home that probably contains 1 or 2 load panels in the house itself.  The guest house should contain it's own panel that is most likely in parallel with the main panel in the house.  Depending on the distance between the main and guest houses, this will probably pose the biggest communication challenge.  The line length between the two buildings combined with the loads installed in the guest house will attenuate the X10 signals. 

You mentioned that you had a 220V dryer receptacle near the load panel but didn't state whether it was in use.  If the receptacle is unused you have a number of options.

1) XTB-IIR plugged into the 220V dryer receptacle/CM15a installed at XTB-IIR front panel.  With the CM15a installed in the XTB-IIR digital input socket (110V) the XTB will boost signals on both phase A and B directly.  No additional coupler is required.  This is probably the best install, however it requires that your computer be located near the load panel. 

2) XTB-IIR plugged into the 220V dryer receptacle/CM15a installed elsewhere.  If you can't locate the CM15a at the load panel (plugged into the XTB-IIR), you can try locating elsewhere on a branch circuit.  The XTB-IIR will receive powerline transmissions from the CM15a (call this phase A) and will repeat them on phase B.  The only problem with this install is that the XTB-IIR has to be able to hear transmissions from the CM15a.  This is a standard 5V X10 level.  If there are noise makers/signal absorbers between the CM15a and the XTB-IIR it's possible to corrupt this communication (that's why option 1 is superior).  Given the fact that you are currently operating without any signal coupling or amplification, the concern here is probably minimal.  It is something to keep in mind.

3) Signalinc 4816 phase coupler installed at the dryer 220V outlet, XTB and CM15a installed on a branch circuit.  The XTB will install in a standard 110V outlet and has a input port that will allow you to plug in the CM15a directly.  This will boost signals on that phase (call this phase A).  The passive phase coupler will couple the boosted output from phase A to phase B.  There will be signal loss in going through the coupler.  The amount of loss depends on the load that your wiring presents to the coupler (Jeff may be able to give you an idea here).  Since phase B is passively coupled (lower signal level) you are more likely to have problems communicating with devices on phase B in your guest house.  If you have transmitters on phase B (mini timer, TM751 transceiver, etc) these devices will transmit at 5v and will be coupled to phase A prior to being boosted by the XTB.  While not an optimal install (like option 1) this will be a marked improvement from your current configuration and is also the most flexible configuration.

Have a look and get back with us,

Boiler



 
Logged

KenWong

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 8
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 09:09:36 PM »

Thanks Boiler!

I think Option 2 is the most viable option.  Note:  The 220V outlet is available.  Option 1 is not convenient because my computer is on the second floor while the outlet is on the first floor.  I would have to program the CM15A upstairs, and then run downstairs every time I have a program change to plug the CM15A into the 220V outlet.

However your option 2 seems the best option with lowest risk of failure.

2) XTB-IIR plugged into the 220V dryer receptacle/CM15a installed elsewhere.  If you can't locate the CM15a at the load panel (plugged into the XTB-IIR), you can try locating elsewhere on a branch circuit.  The XTB-IIR will receive powerline transmissions from the CM15a (call this phase A) and will repeat them on phase B.  The only problem with this install is that the XTB-IIR has to be able to hear transmissions from the CM15a.  This is a standard 5V X10 level.  If there are noise makers/signal absorbers between the CM15a and the XTB-IIR it's possible to corrupt this communication (that's why option 1 is superior).

I figure I can plug in the XTR-IIR in the downstairs 220v outlet and hope there is not too much interference from my computer's second floor location and the XTR-IIR.  I guess if there is too much interference, I could find a power outlet on the second floor that would work.  At least I would not be running up and down the stairs everytime I have a program change.  I'll telll you how it goes!
Logged

Boiler

  • Guest
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2009, 12:18:34 PM »

Hello Ken,

Using option 2, you will need to wire a 220V cable to the XTB-IIR with the correct plug for your dryer receptacle.  Dryer recept's come in different configurations (3 wire or 4 wire with ground) and sizes (30 - 50 amp) depending on the installation.  I don't believe that Jeff provides this since there are many configurations out there.

I'd encourage you to contact Jeff directly at: jeff@jvde.us

Since you are using option 2, I'd suggest the following "prep" to make sure that you wind up with a successful install:

1) Identify all of the devices plugged into the branch circuit that you intend to use for the CM15a.  Do this by turning the breaker off, and inspecting for disabled devices - make a list.  Filter any of the normal suspect devices (TV, computer, stereo, etc).
2) Since you'll be using the CM15a with a local computer, purchase a plug in filter for the computer, monitor, etc. as well. 

The above will hopefully ensure that your new XTB-IIR will be able to hear the transmissions from the CM15a.

Have fun,
Boiler
Logged

BWS

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 3
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009, 04:05:50 PM »

Is it possible to "read" or inquire as to what mode the switch or module is currently in?
If the module reports that it is off then you can resend an ON command.
Wait 5 seconds and rerun the loop until the module responds with an ON response.
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12771
Re: Creating a macro that sends an "ON" signal multiple times
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2009, 06:24:35 PM »

The only X10 two way modules. LM14A Lamp and the AM14A Appliance Modules are discontinued and the others do not respond to a status request.
There are some other brands that will answer a Status Request and some even do x10 protocol.

Eliminating the signal problems like noise and signal suckers; may make the status thing unnecessary.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009, 06:26:24 PM by Brian H »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.