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Author Topic: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS  (Read 8439 times)

sdooley

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3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« on: May 07, 2010, 08:03:55 PM »

OK so I got a 3way XPS3 and the Slave XPSS and I am having a heck of a time getting it to work ( these are supposed to work with CFLs which is what i have).
I have included a disgram of the wiring I have please explain how would would hook this up. I have read everything I could find and tried every combination I can think of but no luck. thanks so much for your help.
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dave w

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 08:26:43 PM »

There are so many ways to wire a three way. Normally the LINE or "Hot" is black, not white. If you remove the light bulb from the socket, is the white wire in box 2 still  "hot"?

Maybe this "Uncle Phil" tutorial will help.

http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/dec97/articles/kingery/kingery6.htm
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 06:32:30 PM by dave w »
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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 08:32:16 PM »

I’m nervous because you appear to have the label HOT arrowed towards the white wire!!!   :o

Black=HOT
White=NEUTRAL
Green or bare copper=GROUND
Red=Switched HOT or traveler
Blue=Switched HOT

BTW - two rules to live by: All guns are always loaded and all wires are always live.  In other words, if you treat them like they are until you verify that they aren't, then you'll be much safer.  And if you can't verify, leave it alone.

I learned the wiring one by not knowing some homeowner knucklehead didn't think wire colors mattered and swapped black and white, and the white was HOT!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 08:39:09 PM by Dave4720 »
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sdooley

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 08:36:36 PM »

How I came to the White being Hot in diagram 2 is I shut off the circuit breaker and disconnected the switches I then turned the circuit breaker on and used my volt meter to test all the wires for a live wire and out of all the wires that was the only live one.
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dave w

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 08:41:29 PM »

How I came to the White being Hot in diagram 2 is I shut off the circuit breaker and disconnected the switches I then turned the circuit breaker on and used my volt meter to test all the wires for a live wire and out of all the wires that was the only live one.
See my question above. I was editing my original response when you and Dave 4720 responded, but I have his same concerns.
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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 08:51:57 PM »

How I came to the White being Hot in diagram 2 is I shut off the circuit breaker and disconnected the switches I then turned the circuit breaker on and used my volt meter to test all the wires for a live wire and out of all the wires that was the only live one.

Then you've got a much a BIGGER problem!  First figure out the source wiring by isolating all wire sets - what wire set (romex if you're technical), blk-wht-copper is the source lead in - because the blk should be HOT and if wired correctly, the wht is the associated neutral and the copper is the associated ground.  Then identify what wire sets go where - to the other switch location, to the load location - all these should be totally dead because you've isolated the romex's.

If it's a previously wired 2-way switch, there may be two hot feeds in two different locations - and depending on who wired it, they may be on two different circuits.

If you have a HOT white then the whole wiring job is suspect and I'd trust nothing.  Back up and start from square one and trace what the heck you've got.

Funerals are hosted by those who assume.

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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 08:53:01 PM »

See my question above. I was editing my original response when you and Dave 4720 responded, but I have his same concerns.

Yeah, those Daves are pretty smart!   ;D
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sdooley

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 09:09:39 PM »

ok so I took the light bulb out and got a zero reading on both black and white. Here is the scoop on the lighting I have 2 lights relitivly close together about 10 feet apart (Just so you know I did not wire this) one for the laundry area (the one I tested) one for one half of the basement ( tube lighting like you would find in a office) there are 2 other lights and switchs down here with which i have put in  X10 stuff with out issue.
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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 09:12:13 PM »

This is an existing 3-way switch installation?  I or someone here can help.

Here’s my suggestion …

You seem good with drawings.  I’d separate all romex bundles. I’d find HOT lead-ins and traveler bundles - wires that go point-to-point but aren’t the hot lead-ins.

Then draw diagrams of each switch location AND the light fixture location and all wire sets, and indicate hot lead-ins and dead travelers.

Then, a suggestion to wire your particular wire set could be offered.

But the wife’s calling now for dinner …   ;D


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sdooley

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 09:15:21 PM »

Also I forgot to mention this laundry light looks like an after thought I took down the the fixture and the white goes to red and is caped off and the black goes to red and is caped off it looks like it was spliced inbetween the red wire or something.
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sdooley

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 09:38:54 PM »

Maybe this will help
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sdooley

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 10:13:23 PM »

Alright fella's lets assume ( and I use assume loosely) that the wiring is correct. I hooked up a WS477 3way and companion and it worked fine other than the fact it is not for CFLs but it was just a test. It powered on and off  with out issue. So I hoave got to be hooking this thing up wrong. so assuming that the wiring is right and using the orinal diagram minus the White being HOT how would you hook this bad boy up?
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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 10:56:43 PM »

Does the XPS3 have wires or screw terminals?

I looked at the WS477 vs. the XPS3, since you said the WS477 and companion was working.

         The black of the WS477 corresponds to the LINE label of the XPS3.

         The red of the WS477 corresponds to the CONTROL label of the XPS3.

         The blue of the WS477 corresponds to the LOAD label of the XPS3.

BUT … the WS477 “got away” with NO neutral - it didn't need one.  The XPS3 demands a neutral.  With wht wires in your boxes being HOT and wht wires being neutral, you have to be very careful where you get a neutral for the XPS3.
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Dave4720

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 11:04:02 PM »

I pounded this out while you had your last post.   I'm just going to add this so I didn't type all this in vain ...

Sometimes a blk-wht pair will be used as a traveler set in a 3-way switch circuit.  BUT, one is supposed to indicate the wht is being used as a HOT lead by putting blk tape or a blk marker on the end of the white wire.

Aside: Never run a white wire as a HOT lead without marking it!

I know you said you did not wire this, so this is not directed at you.

http://www.electrical-online.com/3waydiagram.htm shows a properly wired 3-way, using 12-3 romex (3 meaning wht, blk, red, the copper gnd is not counted in the “3” label, so 12-3 actually has 4 wires: wht, blk, red, copper).

In this correct manner, the wht is neutral and neutral only.  The two switched HOT leads are red and blk.  Keep in mind, however, that there are several correct ways to wire a 3-way switch, not just the one on that web site.

Sometimes though, to avoid using 12-3, a person will use 12-2 and wire the circuit.  At http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/courses/p230/switches/3way/variations.html, note the top diagram.   This shows a proper way of wiring.  Note the 12-3 between the two 3-way switches (copper not shown), wht-neutral, blk and red switched HOT.

To cheat, if you could get a neutral at the Light box, you could just run 12-2 (wht & blk) where the diagram shows red & blk.  If so, you’re supposed to mark the white as a blk HOT lead.

It’s bad practice to run a wht as neutral and a wht as switched HOT (without marking it) as one would not know what wht is what.

To compound things, sometimes a box is used as a junction box and who knows what’s going on inside there - some wires are just a junction and some wires are for the lighting circuit.  Your picture may suggest there’s more in that box than just the lighting.

CAUTION:  If you were to take all that apart to trace as I suggested, you may not ever get it back together.  So, if you do anything, take pictures, and more pictures, and notes, and more notes.

This hits home because my laundry room had two ceiling light outlets, two 3-way switches, and I found that TWO different circuits were in one ceiling box - one was just “passing through” and the other was light wiring.  Even I got so confused as to what the heck someone else did, I documented the heck out of what I had, removed everything and completely rewired the whole circuit.  I was VERY lucky that my laundry room had the attic access, and I could just go up a ladder and have total access to the entire other side of the ceiling.

BTW - talk about a prime example of treating all wire as if they are HOT.  I switched power OFF on the set controlling the lights - the lights went dark, but I still had another circuit in the box, and it was still HOT - and I did not know it until later.

See previous statement about funerals and assumptions.

You have a real challenge here, and it has nothing to do with X10, it has to do with your wiring and getting what you have all figured out before you can plan what to do for the X10 install.  I believe one could have 3-way switch wiring that could work with 3-way switches but be incompatible with the needs of the X10 devices.

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dave w

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Re: 3 Way XPS3 w\ Slave XPSS
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2010, 06:55:21 PM »

So I hoave got to be hooking this thing up wrong. so assuming that the wiring is right and using the orinal diagram minus the White being HOT how would you hook this bad boy up?
Maybe not. The XPS3 has to have a neutral to work. The WS477 does not. If there is only three wires in the box, (what you need for a 3-way) I doubt your white wire is a neutral.

A white wire that is a true neutral, when checked with an Ohm meter to ground (the bare copper wire in Romex) will measure very low ohms. Usually less than 10 ohms to ground. If / when you measure this, again remove the light bulb, and make sure power is OFF. Otherwise it could be a shocking experience for your ohm meter and yourself.
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