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Author Topic: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?  (Read 6711 times)

everydayflyer

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My Security System DS700 (manual / Model 561 on console) was working well including flashing the PR511 fllood lights when arming and also turning on and off the floods with the Lights On Lights Off and flashing when Alarm was triggered.

I installed the AMP CM15A yesterday and now the Flood lights will not flash when Alarm is armed and the Keyfoob or the Palm Pad HR112A will not control the Floods at all.

I disconnected the AHP CM15A completely and Security Console still can not control the floods. They work fine as far as motion detection but that is it.



I had entered my flloods and Eagle Eyes (all outdoors sensors) in the AHP so that I could monitor them.

Man is this X-10 systems confusing. Sometimes it seems as if it is working it is best to leave well enough alone.
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HA Dave

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2010, 10:29:56 PM »

  • My Security System DS700 (manual / Model 561 on console) was working well including flashing the PR511 fllood lights
  • I installed the AMP CM15A yesterday and now the Flood lights will not flash when Alarm is armed and the Keyfoob or the Palm Pad HR112A will not control the Floods at all.
  • I disconnected the AHP CM15A completely and Security Console still can not control the floods. They work fine as far as motion detection but that is it.

Cause and effect does work... its just figuring out the true cause. I can be pretty sure it wasn't that you added a CM15A... as MY CM15A doesn't have any negitive effects on my security console (PS561) or my floodlight (PR511).

The lost of control like that is something I might normally relate to a phase issue. Did you replace a TM751 with the CM15A? Is the CM15A set to transceive the same house code as the DS7000?
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everydayflyer

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2010, 11:02:38 PM »

  • My Security System DS700 (manual / Model 561 on console) was working well including flashing the PR511 fllood lights
  • I installed the AMP CM15A yesterday and now the Flood lights will not flash when Alarm is armed and the Keyfoob or the Palm Pad HR112A will not control the Floods at all.
  • I disconnected the AHP CM15A completely and Security Console still can not control the floods. They work fine as far as motion detection but that is it.

Cause and effect does work... its just figuring out the true cause. I can be pretty sure it wasn't that you added a CM15A... as MY CM15A doesn't have any negitive effects on my security console (PS561) or my floodlight (PR511).

The lost of control like that is something I might normally relate to a phase issue. Did you replace a TM751 with the CM15A? Is the CM15A set to transceive the same house code as the DS7000?

Should not be a phase issue as the DS700 and both Flloods PR511 are on the same phase.

The CM15A did not replace anything .

DS700 on C1 , Floods on C1 and +1 as one is also used as driveway monitor (Front Flood), Chime on C2.

Two Eagle Eyes on I1 ,a TM751 Mini transcever on I as well as an appliance module AM466 on I1 (Shop Lights).

CM15A was set to same codes as Front Flood  C1 (C2)  and Shop Lights I1.

Thing is disconnecting the CM15A did not correct /change anything.

Tomorrow I will unplug the TM751 just incase but with it on I and  Alarm console on C there should not be any issues but what do I know?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 11:10:18 PM by everydayflyer »
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HA Dave

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2010, 12:31:17 PM »

  • Should not be a phase issue as the DS700 and both Flloods PR511 are on the same phase.
  • The CM15A did not replace anything.
  • Two Eagle Eyes on I1 ,a TM751 Mini transceiver on I as well as an appliance module AM466 on I1 (Shop Lights).
  • CM15A was set to same codes as Front Flood  C1 (C2)  and Shop Lights I1.

The EagleEyes could be flooding the PowerLine with (PLC) X10 signals... particularly if the RF from the eye sensors is received by BOTH the TM751 and the CM15A. The TM751 isn't polite... it just blurts out whatever RF signal it receives onto the PowerLine. The CM15A is polite.. if it also hears the RF.. it will (should) wait till the TM751 is done transceiving... then send its own signal on the PowerLine. That's a lot of chatter over the line right there.

IF (huge word) you have some macro that relays eye sensor activity and floodlights AND the floods have an effect on the eye sensors (even the dusk/dawn portion).... that could cause a loop that would flood you powerlines and render your system useless (and can even damage the CM15A in time).

I would try NOT transceiving any code on the CM15A... that is already transceived by a TM751 or the (DS7000) Security Console.

Have you coupled your phases?
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everydayflyer

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2010, 03:13:03 PM »

The EagleEyes could be flooding the PowerLine with (PLC) X10 signals... particularly if the RF from the eye sensors is received by BOTH the TM751 and the CM15A.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

But the Eagle eyes and thier transceiver are on I and I1  and the Console and floods are on C1  and floods C1 +1. Even with Floods not working from Console signal they still trigger a Chime on C2 just as they should.

Problem did not go away with  CM15A completely disconnected from the computer and the 120AC power removed .


I disconnected the TM751 as used by Eagle Eyes and AM466 to control shop lights and now I can turn the Floods On and Off of a sort. Sometimes they respond and sometimes they do not. Before without the TM 751 they were 100% reliable. They wil not wink when Alarm is armed or will they flash is Alarm Panic is used .

Phase should not be an issue as these are all on the same phase but yes I did couple the phase but do not have anyrhing on the other phase. I did check it with a Palm Pad and Chime and that phase does work fine also.
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HA Dave

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2010, 04:06:23 PM »

But the Eagle eyes and thier transceiver are on I and I1  and the Console and floods are on C1  and floods C1 +1. Even with Floods not working from Console signal they still trigger a Chime on C2 just as they should.

If you flood the powerline with signals... it shouldn't matter much which House or Unit address does the flooding.... it would most likely disrupt all House and Unit X10 signals. Think of your powerlines as being like a crowd in a room. If everyone takes turns and says the persons name they are speaking to first... anyone can share anything with any (and every) one. But one loud mouth that is endlessly talking... makes it impossible for anyone to speak to anyone else.

Problem did not go away with CM15A completely disconnected from the computer and the 120AC power removed.

That's what you had mentioned earlier. That is why I think this may be an issue related to phase... or another transceiver (or both). It mostly certainly is NOT the CM15A. How are your phases coupled?

I disconnected the TM751 as used by Eagle Eyes and AM466 to control shop lights and now I can turn the Floods On and Off of a sort. Sometimes they respond and sometimes they do not. Before without the TM 751 they were 100% reliable. They wil not wink when Alarm is armed or will they flash is Alarm Panic is used .

So apparently... BOTH the TM751 and the CM15A were BOTH transceiving the signals. So NOT transceiving the "I" House address with the CM15A could be a help... if you continue to use the TM751.

Phase should not be an issue as these are all on the same phase but yes I did couple the phase but do not have anyrhing on the other phase. I did check it with a Palm Pad and Chime and that phase does work fine also.

Something always has to be the longest (wire length) run from the fuse/breaker box. I think... coupling the phases can help with that too... in some cases. Of course... it can also "spread the noise".
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 04:12:45 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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everydayflyer

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »

Quote
If you flood the powerline with signals... it shouldn't matter much which House or Unit address does the flooding.... it would most likely disrupt all House and Unit X10 signals. Think of your powerlines as being like a crowd in a room. If everyone takes turns and says the persons name they are speaking to first... anyone can share anything with any (and every) one. But one loud mouth that is endlessly talking... makes it impossible for anyone to speak to anyone else.
OK but that means that only one device can transmit at a time and if there is more than  on sensor there could allways be conflicts.

Quote
So apparently... BOTH the TM751 and the CM15A were BOTH transceiving the signals. So NOT transceiving the "I" House address with the CM15A could be a help... if you continue to use the TM751.

CM15A has been disconnected for a day. Conflict was between the TM751 and DS7000. But removing the TM751 does not effect a complete cure.

Quote
The EagleEyes could be flooding the PowerLine with (PLC) X10 signals... particularly if the RF from the eye sensors is received by BOTH the TM751 and the CM15A.

But with DS700 on C1 and Eagle Eyes on I1 if they are conflicting /flooding the power lines or RF space then how does one use multi Motion sensors to do anything?

Quote
Something always has to be the longest (wire length) run from the fuse/breaker box. I think... coupling the phases can help with that too... in some cases. Of course... it can also "spread the noise".

Checked phase coupling by using a 100 foot drop cord as an extension at the end of the line, receptacle furthest from electrical panel. Worked fine before adding the TM751 controlled by the Eagle Eyes.

I guess next step is to kill the Eagle Eyes and see if problems go away. Removing their TM751 did help but perhaps their RC signal are still causing problems.

Quote
IF (huge word) you have some macro that relays eye sensor activity and floodlights AND the floods have an effect on the eye sensors (even the dusk/dawn portion).... that could cause a loop that would flood you powerlines and render your system useless (and can even damage the CM15A in time).


Will CM15A continue to transmitter when disconnected from AC power. I thought batteries were fro memory backup only?

I really do apprteciate all of your help / suggestions.
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HA Dave

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2010, 05:34:18 PM »

OK but that means that only one device can transmit at a time and if there is more than  on sensor there could allways be conflicts.

Yes. Signal collisions and PLC flooding are two concerns we always deal with.
 
CM15A has been disconnected for a day. Conflict was between the TM751 and DS7000. But removing the TM751 does not effect a complete cure.

Correct. But with the Console and the TM751 on different House addresses... I would NOT guess that they would be in conflict.

But with DS700 on C1 and Eagle Eyes on I1 if they are conflicting /flooding the power lines or RF space then how does one use multi Motion sensors to do anything?

Lots of motion sensors in use (millions). But once again... you do have to look at possible conflicts and reactions.

Checked phase coupling by using a 100 foot drop cord as an extension at the end of the line, receptacle furthest from electrical panel. Worked fine before adding the TM751 controlled by the Eagle Eyes.

So... how is it you've coupled your phases?

Will CM15A continue to transmitter when disconnected from AC power.

No.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 05:35:49 PM by Dave_x10_L »
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everydayflyer

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2010, 07:46:41 PM »

I used the $1 capacitor to couple phases but once again  Security Console the , Flood lights ,shop lights , TM751 everything is on the same phase not the one I needed to couple and the coupled one has no X-10 devices on it at all. 

Removing the TM751 as well as the CM15A did not return everything to normal. 

Like you said, cause and effect. I will get there one day.

Most of the time when I click on Hardware Configuration  for AHP  it crashes so difficult to use that as a check.



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HA Dave

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 08:11:54 PM »

I used the $1 capacitor to couple phases

OK... I should have remembered that.. sorry. So we know for sure it not a cheapo repeater flooding your lines.

... Removing the TM751 as well as the CM15A did not return everything to normal. 
Like you said, cause and effect. I will get there one day. Most of the time when I click on Hardware Configuration  for AHP  it crashes so difficult to use that as a check.

You may have two issues... occurring at the same time. A couple ideas to look at: Too high of wattage bulbs in the floodlights can cause them to malfunction. A macro that listens for a signal from a sensor and then resends that signal... can loop and cause things to freeze.
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everydayflyer

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Re: Will (should) AHP CM-15A cause issues with DS 561 ( 7000)?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2010, 09:02:24 PM »

Two each 75 watt bulbs for a total of 150 watts per fixture . No Macro as I did not create any and problem occurs even with CM15A totally disconnected from computer and AC power line.


I did reconnect the CM15A and there is no change. Everything works except that PR511 does not wink when alarm is first armed but that is no big deal. Some say time cures all. Perhaps I need to just give it sometime to see if everything keeps working as is.
 

Once again thanks for all of the help.
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