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Author Topic: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?  (Read 31221 times)

Brian H

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2010, 06:44:55 AM »

I would also say the batteries will keep them programmed in a power failure.
No power and they forget everything. Going back to all defaults. Meaning you have to do a complete reprogramming of the motion sensors after a power loss.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 07:13:29 AM by Brian H »
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2010, 07:55:32 AM »

I would also say the batteries will keep them programmed in a power failure.
No power and they forget everything. Going back to all defaults. Meaning you have to do a complete reprogramming of the motion sensors after a power loss.

I plan on using the MS16a sensors with analog setting of delay at 45 minutes.

The default address setting will be the only address used.

Am I forgetting any other sensor setting that would be lost due a power outage?

BTW Power outage when I am home, open valve manually, away, nothing.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2010, 10:37:50 AM by BoyntonStu »
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Brian H

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2010, 12:37:33 PM »

Default settings. From the manual if X10 has not changed things and forgot to tell us.
Address A1
Detect motion all the time {day and night}
Time out before off. Time set on the small variable dial.
Dusk Dawn feature off.
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2010, 02:58:25 PM »

Default settings. From the manual if X10 has not changed things and forgot to tell us.
Address A1
Detect motion all the time {day and night}
Time out before off. Time set on the small variable dial.
Dusk Dawn feature off.

Perfect.

I ordered 3 MS16a's, 3  AM466's, and a TM751.

I should be able to do the project with some or all of these.
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Brian H

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2010, 03:11:31 PM »

OK Let us know how the project goes.
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2010, 11:26:37 AM »

OK Let us know how the project goes.


Almost Success.

Using 2 MS16A sensors #1=A1, #2=A3, and 2 AM's , I can connect a single lamp in parallel to both AM's and if one receives an OFF signal, the light remains on.

The back voltage may be keeping the light on.

Is there a solution?

Many thanks!

Have you read my idea for an inductive charger?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 11:37:14 AM by BoyntonStu »
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dave w

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2010, 11:51:36 AM »


Using 2 MS16A sensors #1=A1, #2=A3, and 2 AM's , I can connect a single lamp in parallel to both AM's and if one receives an OFF signal, the light remains on.

The back voltage may be keeping the light on.

Is there a solution?
I'm confused, isn't that what you wanted? A logic OR configureation? What happens when the other AM receives the OFF command from second MS16A?
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2010, 12:35:36 PM »

Try turning both On and then unplug the load side from each. One at a time to verify both actually are On?

Like Dave said. I thought you wanted a wired or type circuit where either one was On. The power stayed on.

Yes, turning ON and remaining ON is not the problem.

Either MS16a will turn on the light.

After both MS16's detect motion, the parallel output AM's  will turn the light OFF.

The light stays on when even when both OFF signals are sent.

There may be a sequencing problem.

I will see if it matters whether A1 or A3 initializes first.

Strange, very strange.

As I sit here watching the light it occured to me:

What if all sensors and all AM's were set to A1?

Trying it now.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:46:48 PM by BoyntonStu »
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Brian H

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2010, 12:51:55 PM »

Listen real closely to the first one that is getting the Off signal.
If it clicks more than one time. It tired to turn Off. Saw the voltage still there and tried again. Thus it actually turned back On with the Off command.

I would also verify that both are On. By disconnecting the Output from each one individually. When they should be On and see if the module is really On.

Did you buy the modules from X10 or a independent dealer?
As some may still be selling out older stock.

Older models with Local Control act even stranger than the newer CFL friendly ones with out Local Control.
One way to tell is with one module connected and in the Off state. Toggle the lights local switch Off and back On. If the module goes back On you have Local Control in the modules.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:56:40 PM by Brian H »
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dave w

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2010, 12:57:49 PM »

Either MS16a will turn on the light.

After both MS16's detect motion, the parallel output AM's  will turn the light OFF.

The light stays on when even when both OFF signals are sent.

There may be a sequencing problem.

I will see if it matters whether A1 or A3 initializes first.

Strange, very strange.

As I sit here watching the light it occured to me:

What if all sensors and all AM's were set to A1?

Trying it now.

By now you have found out setting all to A1 results in all AMs turning OFF as soon as the first MS times out.

There can not be a sequencing problem if appliance modules are parallel not series. How are you wiring the outputs in parallel? Extension cord with two plugs?

How do you know BOTH MS16A have sent an OFF? The LED on the MS16A blink whether sending ON or OFF and the MS16A will send an ON every time it sees motion, so are you sure the AM both an receive A1 OFF and an A3 OFF?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:03:13 PM by dave w »
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Brian H

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2010, 01:03:44 PM »

The A1 On and Off will also toggle the TM751s internal relay.
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2010, 01:08:39 PM »


By now you have found out setting all to A1 results in all AMs turning OFF as soon as the first MS times out.  CORRECT!

There can not be a sequencing problem if appliance modules are parallel not series. How are you wiring the outputs in parallel? Extension cord with two plugs?


A single lamp with 2 bare wires, a short wire plugged into each AM,  the white commons and the black 120V wires are wire nutted together with the 2 lamp wires.

I believe that isolating the outputs via relays (as suggested) may be the only solution.

I believe that the solenoid valve may operate on DC, if that is any help.


Strange, stranger, strangest.

With AM#1 set to A! and with AM#2 set to A3, if I hold my finger on each module and press either MS-16A sensor OFF button, I feel a click in each AM?????

It seems that the parallel output is allowing the OFF signal to go to both modules.????
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 01:13:13 PM by BoyntonStu »
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dave w

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2010, 01:51:51 PM »


I believe that isolating the outputs via relays (as suggested) may be the only solution.

I believe that the solenoid valve may operate on DC, if that is any help.
With AM#1 set to A! and with AM#2 set to A3, if I hold my finger on each module and press either MS-16A sensor OFF button, I feel a click in each AM?????

It seems that the parallel output is allowing the OFF signal to go to both modules.????
Very wierd. Make sure we have this right:
With AM outputs in parallel, they turn ON independantly?
They turn OFF togeather regardless whether A1 or A3 is the address sent?
Are you sure the "MS3" motion sensor is truely programmed to A3? They default back to A1 with any battery interuption. Maybe try a different HC (say B3) for the second MS16A.
So if you break the connection between outputs of AM1 and AM3 they start working independantly again?
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BoyntonStu

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2010, 02:35:16 PM »

Very wierd. Make sure we have this right:
With AM outputs in parallel, they turn ON independantly?  Yes

They turn OFF togeather regardless whether A1 or A3 is the address sent?  no, they stay ON.

Are you sure the "MS3" motion sensor is truely programmed to A3? Yes

They default back to A1 with any battery interuption. Maybe try a different HC (say B3) for the second MS16A.

How can I do a B and an A with one Transceiver?

So if you break the connection between outputs of AM1 and AM3 they start working independantly again?  Yes

BTW I am ordering three 110 VAC relays.

The relay inputs will be independent.

The switched output contacts will control the primary of a 110 VAC/24VAC transformer which will operate the water valve.
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dave w

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Re: Battery Motion Sensors to be hard wired?
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2010, 03:11:33 PM »

How can I do a B and an A with one Transceiver?

BTW I am ordering three 110 VAC relays.

The relay inputs will be independent.

The switched output contacts will control the primary of a 110 VAC/24VAC transformer which will operate the water valve.

You can't use two house codes...sorry, complete brain flatulence on my part....happens a lot.

The relays will fix your problem. BTW if you are ordering the relays from All Electronics they also have cheap line cords to connect the relay coils to the AMs.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 04:55:35 PM by dave w »
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