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Author Topic: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.  (Read 3383 times)

Vector

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One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« on: September 12, 2010, 11:33:11 PM »

Using ALL brand new X10 gear.

CM15A, AHP 3.271, TM751

I've got 2 LM465s in my living room. Set to A2 and A3. A2 works fine via my NStinct remote and AHP without issue. Can turn on/off and adjust brightness anytime.

A3 I can turn the module ON if it is already OFF, but once that's done, I can no longer control it in AHP. It responds to commands from the NStinct remote perfectly, and if I use the remote to command it to go OFF, I can turn it back on with AHP, but cannot control it.

The CM15A, TM751, and the A2 & A3 LM465s are all on the same phase.

The A2 unit works perfectly and responds to the commands given by the NStinct and the CM15A. I've also got a SS13A that controls the A2 and A3 LM465 modules perfectly. It's just controlling it from AHP other than turning it ON from an OFF state that doesn't work.

Any ideas? I've tried searching around, but all I can find is reference to noise and phase issues, but I can turn it on, and the other units in the house can command the A3 module without issue so I'm guessing it's not a noise or phase problem, but will gladly take any advice I can get.

Thanks in advance!
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Brian H

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 06:14:50 AM »

In AHP Tools Hardware Configuration. Look at the Monitored House Code and Tranceived House Code settings.
The TM751 is not polite and it is possible the CM15A and TM751 are stepping on each other.

Are the Lamp Modules controlling incandescent type lights?

A3 may have a noisy load or the signal is marginal. When it is on. It doesn't receive enough signal to control it. While the TM751 and NStinct's signal is still strong enough to control it.

Maybe a short test. Disconnect the TM751 as the CM15A should tranceive the NSinct's signal and see what you can control.
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Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 03:25:36 PM »

Brian,

Hit the nail on the head. Appears the two transceivers were stepping on each other. I told the CM15A to stop transceiving House Code A (since the TM751 is in the attic and I didn't want to go up there before work today) and the A3 unit began to respond normally using AHP & the NStinct. Being a ham radio guy the dual transceiver RF problem should have popped in my head.

Thanks for your help. I used to have a ton of X10 before Hurricane Katrina (I worked at RadioShack in 97-98 and bought a bunch under my discount) and I am just now replacing it all. I'm sure this won't be my first quirk.

Dave
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Dan Lawrence

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 03:52:45 PM »

I stopped using TM751s in favor if RR501 transceivers as they are more polite (It waits until the line is clear to send a signal).  One in on Housecode A in my living room and controls lights A1 A2 and A3. I have a SS13 "Stick A Switch" next to my front door and another next to the Breakfast Room (a large room next to the Kitchen that controls F (Food)  lights F1, F2 and F3.  There is a RR501 set to A1 in the Living Room and another set to F9 in the Breakfast Room.  If the lights in either room are off I can turn them on with opening AHP.   
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Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 04:05:27 PM »

Dan,

I may switch to the RR501 as I understand it's a bit more polite and responds to power-line commands as well as RF commands, if I remember right the TM751 only responds to RF commands. I also like the fact that the RR501 can be set to 1 or 9, and not just 1. I just used the TM751 as it came with a package of stuff I bought from x10.com.

Dave
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Dan Lawrence

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 07:04:31 PM »

Victor,  X10 only sells the RR501 as part of a package, but Automated Outlet http://www.automatedoutlet.com/ sells it by itself, plus their shipping is flat rate regardless of how much you buy.    I get a lot of modules and other X10 items from there.
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Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 08:24:59 PM »

Well, it started doing it again, and I figured it out.

When I've got my room lamp on in my office, it's CFL and on the same circuit (and therefore phase) I cannot control A3 (well, D3 now, changed house codes after reading about motion sensor failures defaulting to A1 and decided I didn't want my kitchen light switch kicking on/off) but when the office light is off, there's no issue. So I guess I need some sort of filter, or switch to incandescent in my office.

Dave
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 08:52:54 PM »

Wow, there's just something about the outlet that the D3 module is plugged into. I've changed house codes, swapped modules, and it works, mostly, as long as no other CFL is on in the entire house. Everything else gets controlled just fine, except that one module in that outlet.

I suppose it's time to invest in some sort of signal/noise meter/diagnostic device. I haven't tried movie the CM15A unit, as it would be terribly difficult to use anywhere else in the house as this is where the PC is, and this is where it's programmed from. :/

Well, off to hunt some noise and research noise filters.
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Dan Lawrence

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 10:28:26 PM »

If it's the CFL, you need to look at other brands of CFLs.   Some brands make noise that blocks X10 signals others do not.  I have several CFL's one in a Swag Light in my Breakfast Room.  Since it's a CFL, I use an Appliance Module but the module makes just enough "leakover" power to make the CFL blink.  The solution was a cube tap and a night light (with a cover over the bulb),  you plug module into one side of the cube tap and the night light into the other side, the lamp's cord is plugged into the module's outlet.   PRESTO!!!  No more CFL flicker.

Experiment with another brand of CFL and see it the noise goes away.
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Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2010, 11:13:26 PM »

I'd be willing to bet these garbage CFLs are noisier than a bunch of teenage girls at a Justin Bieber concert. I was ramen-noodle broke when I moved into this house, so I bought whatever was on sale at Home Depot/Lowe's/Wal-Mart/etc... The lamp I am trying to control is NOT a CFL, but if there is a CFL lit up anywhere on that phase, I cannot control with the CM15A (AHP). It still responds to the TM751 using the NStinct remote or the SS13A "stick switch" (which I love BTW).

It also seems to struggle with bright/dim commands via the NStinct or the SS13A, as if all them are not "getting through." I bet it's sitting right on some SNR threshold that barely keeps it working.

Is there somewhere that has a list of recommended brands of CFL? I had my entire house CFL'ed until I got back into X10, I like being able to dim lights at night for home theater watching, or having a macro allowing the bathroom light to come up at only 25% at night instead of blinding me.

I'm considering an XTBM kit, and possibly an XTB-IIR for the house just to do this right the first time. I already know I'm going to need to do phase coupling to cover the whole house, and I've got a brand new Weller soldering station that's itching to start some sort of project. The XTBM/XTB-IIR seems like a good place to start.

I've been reading these forums constantly in my off time and finding TONS of good information. Wish this wealth of info was around back when I first started playing with X10.
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Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997

Dan Lawrence

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 08:46:30 AM »

As to a list here, no.   It's really trial and error process.   Ive had CFLs from Home Depot, Lowe's, the local electronics store, WalMart that were all fine with X10, and a small batch from BJ's made noise on the line. 
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dave w

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2010, 09:43:30 AM »

I'd be willing to bet these garbage CFLs are noisier than a bunch of teenage girls at a Justin Bieber concert. I was ramen-noodle broke when I moved into this house, so I bought whatever was on sale

Is there somewhere that has a list of recommended brands of CFL? I had my entire house CFL'ed until I got back into X10, I like being able to dim lights at night for home theater watching, or having a macro allowing the bathroom light to come up at only 25% at night instead of blinding me.

I'm considering an XTBM kit, and possibly an XTB-IIR for the house just to do this right the first time. I already know I'm going to need to do phase coupling to cover the whole house, and I've got a brand new Weller soldering station that's itching to start some sort of project. The XTBM/XTB-IIR seems like a good place to start.

I don't know who Justin Bieber is, but I have been on the Ramen noodle diet, so I laughed so hard I had to run to Sam's Club and buy some Depends. (old geezer)  :D

Which transitions me into the important stuff.

I have perhaps a dozen CFLs in the house and have had good luck with GE 13 watt and 23 watt CFLs, cheap from Sam's Club. They generate noise big time. They will peg my old ELK meter, however my XTBM does not register it as noise in the critical X10 band, and that is the key.

I also have an old ACT CR234 repeater which helps make noise less detrimental by heavy duty boosting of the X10 signal.  I put it in the "flamethrower" class, but not as good as the XTBIIR.

Finally, I have a Weller WTC station still cookin after 30 years. I suppose I could jump up and down and shout "WELLER RULES", but that would conflict with my "old geezer" age classification.   :'

Thanks for making us giggle!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 09:46:15 AM by dave w »
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Noam

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2010, 09:45:18 AM »

I'm considering an XTBM kit, and possibly an XTB-IIR for the house just to do this right the first time. I already know I'm going to need to do phase coupling to cover the whole house, and I've got a brand new Weller soldering station that's itching to start some sort of project. The XTBM/XTB-IIR seems like a good place to start.

If that one outlet is on the opposite phase from your CM15A, and there are other noise-generating or signal-sucking devices in between, then the signal might just not be strong enough by the time it gets to that outlet. Installing a booster, such as the XTB-IIR might help that (there are no guarantees, of course).
I installed an XTB-IIR at the beginning of August, and it solved a number of signal-strength issues I was having.
Prior to that, I had a capacitor acting as a phase bridge, but the signal from the CM15A alone wasn't quite strong enough to reach a few of my devices reliably.
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Vector

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Re: One LM465 cannot be turned off or brightness changed with AHP.
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 08:03:05 AM »

These CFLs are mostly "Value" brand which are cheap and noisy apparently.

The lamp I am trying to control is on the same phase as the CM15A, I just think there's too much noise on that circuit or something because it's just not getting to it sometimes. Now I've got ALL the CFLs off in the house and I can only turn it on (not off or dim) with the CM15A. I can control everything else in the house (only about 4 other modules right now) without issue from the CM15A. I can control the D3 (the module that's being annoying) with the NStinct talking to the TM751 (which I hope to swap for RR501 soon) and it's all working great.

I think an XTBM and XTB-IIR is in my near future (like ordering tomorrow, pay day!) just to ensure I've got the best possible signal in the house period, if I continue to have issues then I can use the XTBM to hunt them down and squash them like the bugs they are.

For those that don't get the Justin Bieber & Teenage Girls loudness, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQefcqszLTg
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Best Regards,

Dave (aka "Vector")
X10 junkie since 1997
 

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