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Author Topic: looking for advice getting started  (Read 37762 times)

Brandt

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 06:42:19 PM »

done
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HA Dave

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 08:07:11 PM »

done

Very cool. I certainly don't want to chase anyone away from the X10 forum. But many times users have become frustrated when trying to find non-windows based solutions. Although I think most people would like to be helpful... that doesn't mean we always have help to give. Getting the links up there.. where they are likely to be spotted when a user does a search... helps everyone. Good luck with your Sites!
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New ideas for marketing Smarthomes may alter the Home Automation world completely.... and forever.

Brandt

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2010, 12:53:15 AM »

Yeah and I don't like to take away from this wonderful forum, but if you run into people interested in starting with linux home automation, send em over!
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NESter

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 05:21:48 AM »

good info.  I will one day get a cm15a working in linux, i swear.  but for now I am using it with a VM running XP which works great.  It doesn't do *everything* I want, like triggering other non-X10 stuff.  But I can talk to my modules.  And I was able to get my security remote to control my lamp and appliance modules using macros.  Not sure why I need to use macros when the remote is supposed to be able to talk directly to devices 1-4 on the correct house code, but it works.  I still haven't figured out how to make a door/window sensor trigger a macro; there is no use sensor button for me.  Is that because x10 still hasn't sent me my registration codes?  They don't seem to say what features actually require registration and which ones will work without a code, at least not anywhere I've looked so far in my short time playing with it.

I will definitely look at the schematic for the laundry buzzers and see if one of the prebuilt modules will do what I want.  I still think using a relay with a door/window sensor would be a fun way to do it, but I can see how using official modules, particularly PLC modules, will make things work nicely.  I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.  Thanks for all the input!

PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?
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HA Dave

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2010, 11:24:45 AM »

......... I can see how using official modules, particularly PLC modules, will make things work nicely.  I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.  Thanks for all the input!

There was lots of automation... before we had computers in homes. Good engineering often uses the simplest of devices to do the required job. I hacked a Security remote and connected it to a Universal Module to be able to remotely disarm the DS7000. That could be done with the CM11A.
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New ideas for marketing Smarthomes may alter the Home Automation world completely.... and forever.

Brandt

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2010, 11:37:45 AM »

Not sure why I need to use macros when the remote is supposed to be able to talk directly to devices 1-4 on the correct house code, but it works.

It's suppose to be home automation, not home by remote control :P

Quote
I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.
I can do that with Heyu, CM11a, and w800usb. Or anywhere in the world with the Heyu PHP web front end domus.Link

Quote
PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

You're jumping the gun here
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NESter

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2010, 01:18:54 PM »

You're jumping the gun here

Perhaps a little.  But I have AHP working in a virtualized environment right now.  Shouldn't I somehow be able to spy on the data going to the USB?  If I gather enough commands and statuses, shouldn't I be able to decode the protocol and write an open replacement?  I'm not suggesting it'll be a simple weekend project, but in theory it doesn't matter what's inside their black box as long as my code accepts the same inputs and sends the same outputs.  From the (ancient) data on linuxha.com it sounds like getting a basic driver to send and receive data via the USB interface shouldn't be terribly difficult.  The tedious part is figuring out what the input means and what output to send to cause the desired result.  Is this really a not-worth-it situation?  I find it hard to believe that no one has been working on this at all for years.  Obviously if X10 would just release specs it would make life easier by orders of magnitude, but not having specs is no reason not to try.  Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to rely on older hardware to get the job done?  Sure, I could pick up a USED cm11a, and maybe even get a good deal from someone.  But I can order hundreds of cm19a for cheap right from x10.  While I can use their basic functionality just fine on a windows machine or through virtualization, their software isn't extendible.  Honestly I haven't found anything that can't just be saved onto the cm15a that can be done by the software.  I want an interface to the data, not just a programming interface for macros and timers.  And I'm still trying to remain optimistic that I will get it.  So on that note...  anyone know of a software-based line monitor for USB interfaces?  I figure I can capture the data from under the windows guest OR the linux host.  I'll start looking into this over the weekend.
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Brandt

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2010, 01:36:56 PM »

Sure if you have the time and interest go for it....for others home automation is their hobby not programming, and for some others it's  a time versus money issue

I suggest you work with the current Heyu developer Janusz, to get Heyu to support it, otherwise Heyu will die when there are no more CM11a's
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 01:38:45 PM by Brandt »
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pconroy

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2010, 10:06:37 PM »

PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

Is that the one that makes the CM15A look like a device driver?
If so - I've shied away from those.
Given the changes that Linux still goes thru, I think that approach is fragile.

I'd grab libusb and try to take to the device directly.


And - yeah - you may be missing one small thing.  ;)

No one really knows for sure how to talk to the CM15A.
They've been reverse engineering the protocol.
Somethings appear similar to the CM11A, others are still unknown.

At least that was the status last time I looked.

X10 knows.
And they ain't sharing.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2010, 10:12:58 PM »

PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

Is that the one that makes the CM15A look like a device driver?
If so - I've shied away from those.
Given the changes that Linux still goes thru, I think that approach is fragile.

I'd grab libusb and try to take to the device directly.


And - yeah - you may be missing one small thing.  ;)

No one really knows for sure how to talk to the CM15A.
They've been reverse engineering the protocol.
Somethings appear similar to the CM11A, others are still unknown.

At least that was the status last time I looked.

X10 knows.
And they ain't sharing.

X10 will never share the the specs on the CM15A besides the known fact its a USB device.   Some bright guy on the Linux side might figure it out, there has to be some USB devises in the Linux world.
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Brandt

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2010, 10:34:58 PM »

does it use a serial converter chip such as ftdi or is it an HID?
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NESter

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2010, 02:12:36 AM »

for me, hacking is the hobby.  Whether it's hardware, software, or some combination.  I like making the equipment I own act the way I want it to, regardless of what the manufacturer intended.  I like to do things for the sake of doing them sometimes. 

Actually, the other approach (non-device driver) that interested me WAS libusb.  I was looking at the pycm19a code and wondering if something similar could be worked out for the cm15a.  I personally would do it in perl, only because that's the language I'm most comfortable with.  I'll have a good look at how the python code works, and contemplate implementing something similar.  I still think there has to be a way to monitor the data sent and received by AHP.  With a large enough dump of raw data and sufficient time studying it, it ought to be possible to duplicate the behaviors of AHP. 

I haven't looked at heyu, but isn't that closed-source?  I mean, free as in beer is better than expensive, but I intend for my solution if it materializes to be free as in speech.  I'm doing this for fun.  Unless someone is paying me to write it, I intend to GPL it for all to enjoy and hack.  I envision starting out with a script that just translates the data into something usable, and maybe eventually creating a perl module that others can include in their own code.  If there's a demand, that is.  I'm wondering if there really is considering how little has been done thus far.  If HA people aren't typically coders, it makes the most sense to just write something that performs similar functions to heyu, which from what I've read seems to allow x10 commands to be sent from the command line at the very least.  That's certainly something I will implement if I get this off the ground.  I am picturing a daemon-type solution, where there is a background process doing the talking and receiving the data, and a command line program to send commands.  the daemon (backend) would have to be configurable to trigger linux events when it received predetermined x10 commands.  In this way, I could, for example, make a notification pop up on my desktop stating which door or window was just opened, or eventually, that the wash needed to go into the dryer.  Or that the motion detector in the driveway has detected someone approaching the house.  On the other hand, if someone logs in via ssh from outside my LAN, it could chirp my powerhorns in case I am not by a screen to see the pop-up that I already have coded.  The possibilities will be endless.  And the code will be free.  I've disconnected my cm15a from my laptop and plan to plug it in downstairs where the box with vmware is.  Hopefully in the end it will be moved to my main server where no ms software resides.  Everyone wish me luck.  :)
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Brian H

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2010, 06:05:44 AM »

Brandt, It uses a Cypress CY7C63723 chip. Is the microcontroller with a USB interface all in one chip.
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pconroy

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2010, 10:57:22 PM »

X10 will never share the the specs on the CM15A besides the known fact its a USB device.   Some bright guy on the Linux side might figure it out, there has to be some USB devises in the Linux world.

Linux has wonderful, complete support for USB devices.
That's not the issue.
On this Linux laptop, I have USB audio, USB mouse, USB 802.11n and a USB bluetooth adapter. :)



Bright guys are slowing reverse engineering the protocol.
Most of the basic stuff is figured out.
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pconroy

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Re: looking for advice getting started
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2010, 10:59:40 PM »

I haven't looked at heyu, but isn't that closed-source? 

Heyu is open but not GPL, LGPL'd etc.
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