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Author Topic: Defeating AGC in lamp modules  (Read 3486 times)

merkelck

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Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« on: November 06, 2010, 06:02:23 AM »

Some time ago there was a discussion about defeating the agc in certain lamp modules. The problem was that these modules would turn themselves right back on after thaey had been commanded off.  The interim fix was to put a small load across them like a night light, etc. This worked fine but of course as soon as I leave home for an extended period, the bulbs burn out and things remain on when they should not. There was a procedure that involved cutting a wire in the module that would defeat the AGC. Can someone please direct me to that discussion or tell me what the procedure involved? I know, I should have done it at the time but the night light was easy.
 Kent
 
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Brian H

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 06:33:24 AM »

Actually it is Local Control not AGC {Automatic Gain Control} . AGC adjusts the receivers gain relative to the signal level and noise on the power line.

Are the Lamp Modules the newer Soft Start Versions where they ramp on and off?
I have not seen a modification for the new Soft Start Version as they are a complete redesign from the older ones.

What type of bulb are you using with the lamp modules?
If they are not incandescent. What type are they? That can be a problem with things like CFLs.

There are Local Control modifications for the older Lamp Modules.
If you have the older ones. We can point you to them.

Some have found replacing the small night light bulb with a resistor is enough to correct the problem.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:49:59 AM by Brian H »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 10:44:08 AM »


From the title, I couldn't imagine why anyone would want to defeat the AGC function...

Jeff
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 12:29:23 PM »

Where do you find this?  AHP's Help function has zilch for either AGC or Local Control.
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Brian H

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 12:37:38 PM »

I don't think anyone has a mod for AGC and since it is a good thing. I don't know why anyone would try to defeat it.
 
The Local Control mods are not on an X10 site and do NOT apply to the newer CFL friendly appliance modules or soft start lamp modules. Both where totally redesigned. New PC Boards and microcontroller chips.
http://www.laureanno.com/index.html
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 12:50:33 PM by Brian H »
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merkelck

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 02:10:06 PM »

Well, perhaps I have my terms mixed up but the whole issue is that the device is being used with a wall wart that draws extremely low current. Some one had responded to my query regarding that issue and even provided a link that showed where to cut a wire in the module that would prevent the device from turning itself back on after being commanded off. The interim suggestion was to plug a small 7w light bulb in parallel with the wall wart. That works fine until the lamp decides to burn out, then the device stays on all the time. The devices are PAM01. At the time. I was getting ready to travel and did not have the time to open the unit and cut the wire.
Does that ring any bells???
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 02:48:08 PM »

When you say "wall wart" what kind of lamp module are your talking about?
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dave w

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 03:26:49 PM »

Yes Merkelck,  Dan is making a great point.

You are playing with (smoke and) fire when you mix Lamp Modules and wall warts. Especially wall warts with transformers in them. But yet you mention the PAM01 which is an Appliance Module, so I assume you are really using AM's .

Current is leaked through an Appliance Module for two reasons:
1. For the "local control" where flipping the connected appliance off and on will cause the Appliance Module to turn on. This feature can be disabled on the older appliance modules.  http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm and appearently is not present in the newer "CFL friendly" AMs.   
2. To sense the position of the internal relay; "Am I off or on?". This function can not be bypassed and have the module operate in a normal fashion. (See the "momentary appliance module" mod in the link above).

The solution might be to get a couple of the "CFL friendly" AMs which do not have local control. They do still leak the relay position current, but the famouse "Brian H Testing Laboratory" has determined it is far lower than the older modules.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 03:33:54 PM by dave w »
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merkelck

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 05:12:59 PM »

OK let me see if I can clear up the confusion (mine). The module is a PAM01. Appliance module. The load is a wall wart that powers an internet camera. Plugging that wall wart into the output of the PAM01 causes the PAM01 to turn on. If I send the OFF command to the module it will turn off and then within two seconds or less, it turns right back on. Connecting a 7watt nitelite in parallel stops the unwanted turn on. The system then works fine in response to my timers and macros. But when I am away from home, the whole thing reverts to it's odd ways if the nitelite burns out. Six months ago I brought this up and I was certain that someone had mentioned the problem had to do with the AGC. However, I must be mistaken regarding that. Maybe I should start a new topic entitled "How do I stop unwanted device turn on".
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merkelck

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 05:26:09 PM »

I have since had a chance to look over the links provided by Dave and Brian. Those are the links that I had seen before. I am truly sorry for the confusion in mentioning the AGC in my post. Now I have to see if the the PAM01 looks like the devices in those links. Thanks for all the replies.
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Brian H

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 06:42:13 PM »

You may want to try a 47K {47,000} Ohm 1/2 watt resistor where the night light bulb was.

I think I know where you may have seen the AGC reference. I have a PAM01 and the box says it has AGC.

I believe the board is different in it but if you need help I maybe able to find the needed jumper to disable Local Control. I did it on the one I have but memory doesn't know where the parts are exactly.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:55:17 PM by Brian H »
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merkelck

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 11:44:48 AM »

I will try tacking a resistor across the input pins of the wallwart. I will let you know what happens. I would prefer that over modifying the device itself. Thanks for the suggestion
Kent
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Brian H

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 12:30:56 PM »

You could also mount the resistor in a AC plug. Insulating it for safety and using a power tap on the modules output.
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merkelck

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 06:25:20 PM »

Brian, the resistor appears to have solved the issue. Thanks for the advice.
Kent
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Brian H

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Re: Defeating AGC in lamp modules
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2010, 06:30:11 PM »

You are welcome.
Glad it worked for you.
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