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Author Topic: need advice on installation on cameras.  (Read 14599 times)

geeforce

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need advice on installation on cameras.
« on: April 18, 2011, 03:38:05 AM »

I'm installing some cameras for a co worker's sister. the black and white cams, 8 of them and 4 color cams from X10. I have mounted most of them "the b/w cams". The color cams require to much light to see. She doesn't know this. She's scared and just want some protection so she order what they told her "X10". Here's the problem. I used house code c for her house which is fairly new. It was in the late afternoon and 3 cams were working fine "in the house". When i installed the 4 cam on the porch. The cams don't switch properly. Sometimes they would come on and most times they didn't. I did notice that it was starting to get dark at least dusky. I tried moving the switching module from plug to plug and it kinda worked. I'm going back next week and try changing the house code to b like mine. It works fine here, but i do get some interference @ the dusk/dawn stage. No problem for me, because i don't leave for work until dark. Anyway i need your help. She is a single mom with 3 kids and her house was broken into in broad daylight. She went to work at 8am and the break in was around 9am. She knows this because she has a CPI security alarm. They kicked in the front door and they stole what they wanted before the police came. I have taken a heart to this family and they are trusting in me for some protection with the X10 cam system. I know it works because it is working fine for me. I just want to do the same for someone else. your help would appreciated. Thank you. I relayed the message to get the AHP software and they sent her AHP software with the vanguard software and hardware, but not the AHP hardware "the interface module" Has the setup changed ? Is the smartmacros, onalert and my house included with her package.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 03:52:04 AM by geeforce »
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dave w

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 09:09:00 AM »

The cameras are switched ON and OFF through signals on the powerline, so do some searches for "phase coupling", "noise", and "signal suckers".

Or go here: http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm  You have been around X10 for a while, so should know what to look for as far as tracking down noise problems. 

Since you have a lot of cameras spread around the home, probably on multiple circuits, you should consider a repeater. A high output repeater like the XTBIIR from JV Digital Engineering or the ACT CR234 from Smarthome.com may solve many noise issues along with reliably coupling the powerline signal between the two power phases in the home.

BTW Vanguard is getting some negative comments on the forum. Appears to be hard to setup.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 09:13:09 AM by dave w »
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HA Dave

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 09:18:44 AM »

.......... She's scared and just want some protection so she order what they told her "X10". Here's the problem. ..........The cams don't switch properly. Sometimes they would come on and most times they didn't.

........ they are trusting in me for some protection with the X10 cam system. I know it works because it is working fine for me. I just want to do the same for someone else. your help

I relayed the message to get the AHP software and they sent her AHP software with the vanguard software and hardware, but not the AHP hardware "the interface module" Has the setup changed ? Is the smartmacros, onalert and my house included with her package.

As you know... every X10 setup is different. Your friend make have much more noise on her line from things like phone chargers, and wall-warts for other device, CFL, and so forth. It also sounds like your friend will need some kind of phase coupling (at least).

Sit down with her and review her X10 order... you may even need to call X10 to see what she ordered and when it will arrive. We have no way of checking that here at the forums.

Best of luck! It isn't as easy to do an install for others as it is for yourself.
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geeforce

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 03:38:02 AM »

Thanks for your reply. I have been with X10 for awhile but i have not had the issues of line noise, repeater, couplers, etc. I did notice that she has a lot of CFL bulbs in her house and i counted apart 3 cordless phones. Should i change the CFL bulb to the incandesents on my return and unplug the phones as a way to track the problem. I have spoken with her about contacting X10 about the AHP interface and the plugins. Oh yea which of the AHP version require you to load the plugins first before the main software. I thought i had seen this in one of the post before. Thanks again and i hope i haven't bitting off more than i can chew here.
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HA Dave

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 11:10:45 AM »

.... I have been with X10 for awhile but i have not had the issues of line noise, repeater, couplers, etc. ....

I wasn't able to get anything reliable till I used a phase coupler. I use mostly CFL or LED for lighting with no noise problems.... although others do have noise. My biggest noise maker has been a fan (that is controlled via IR remote) that I put on a filter. Much of this stuff is a house-to-house and sometimes even month-to-month issue. As we regularly get posts from long time users with brand new (to them) reliability issues.

You seem to have a really good working knowledge of X10 and the possible problems. Remember to be creative with your solutions. Wiring cameras so they share a power-bar can eliminate a phase (and even noise) issue in a group-of-4. Sometimes a remote line workaround can be just using a TM751 (transceiver) where switching is needed (and then using the AHP CM15A... set to send a RF signal).

A big camera setup is complex! You might have a problem getting such a large setup to work without monitoring. And since you live elsewhere... that means some of the cameras may be dummies (although actually real cameras). Cameras are a great deterrent! Exploit the fact that criminals avoid cameras. Be sure to use signage. Also, don't overlook simple deterrents like a radio playing and lights on timers.

Remember... you can't stop crime. Feeling safe... is just a feeling. If the robber got a good haul from your friends home he will likely be back. Everyone knows the insurance will replace the lost items and it isn't uncommon for a thief to return for the new replacement stuff. Solid, locked doors and windows clear landscaping and plenty of lighting is always good. Best of luck.
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dave w

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 02:11:46 PM »

I did notice that she has a lot of CFL bulbs in her house and i counted apart 3 cordless phones. Should i change the CFL bulb to the incandescents on my return and unplug the phones as a way to track the problem.
CFLs could be making noise, so yes start there. If the wall warts for the cordless phones are "heavy" example i.e 1/2 pound or more, then they have transformers and probably not a problem. The plug in chargers that are very light in weight, as if the wall wart shell is empty, they will be a switching supply. Power bricks for notebooks, stink jet printers, etc are switchers. Same for flat panel TVs and desktop PCs, and any appliance that has electronic controls might have switching supplies, but usually are adequately filtered internally. As a side note, if the phones are 2.4 GHz then they could interfere with the wireless camera video when the handsets are in use. Same is true for WiFi modems.

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geeforce

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 03:50:25 AM »

Hello Dave. Just to let you know were I'm at on this project. When i arrived back at the house the cameras were doing much better. They were switching from to another with no problems and she replaced all the bulbs in her house over to the incandescent bulbs. I ended up installing 3 more cameras to a total of 7 cams. 2 of them are upstairs and they weren't coming on and the other cams would switch on but wouldn't stay on but a few seconds before turning off. It was night time when this began to happened. The cams appear to be functioning with out interference. I don't see any lines or ghost images from the cams. They will come on and a few sec. later it cuts off. They don't stay on for the 1 min default time. Any ideas. I'm going back over there Saturday to install the software and setup her portforwarding. I don't understand this. When she ordered her software package. She got AHP and plug-ins and vanguard software, but she only received the USB PC Tranceiver instead of the CM15A interface. X10 says it'll work fine.
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Brian H

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2011, 06:47:06 AM »

Are you using motion sensors for triggers?
Motion sensors have a Dusk Dawn sensor in them. It is set to the motion address plus one. Like motion address of C1 would have a dusk dawn of C2. We have seen some users having a light shining on a motion sensor. Turn on and off the dusk dawns address and flashing lights or maybe switching camera addresses.

Se got the CM19A/TM751 combination and not the CM15A Interface?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 08:04:19 AM by Brian H »
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geeforce

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2011, 10:59:02 PM »

Thanks Brian for your reply. Yes I'm using the motion sensor to trigger the individual cam. There are presently 7 cams installed and 1 more to go later. I used house code C because in earlier post for myself. I was told that house code B which i use is used by the dusk to dawn feature. That was why i used C here. I have the motion sensor C1 trigger Cam C1, C2 motion sensor trigger C2 cam, C3 motion sensor trigger C3 cam and so on. I have considered using house code B like i use with no problems. What do you think? I haven't install AHP as of yet, but i didn't want the cam triggering to be a part of the program. It seems that the switching works great with sensor to cam triggering, but if i need to change it so be it. Like we know every house is different. correct she didn't receive the interface. X10 told me it will work fine, but i'm not convinced. I was going to give it a try, but i don't see it working with home automation only cam switching. Should i hold off on the software installation until we can get 1? Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 11:05:26 PM by geeforce »
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Brian H

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2011, 06:13:14 AM »

No Dusk Dawn Sensing can be on any House Code. It is just one unit code higher than the motion sensors address.

Using motion sensors directly to control the cameras is going to be a problem.
Motion Sensor C1 triggers camera C1 but its dusk dawn on C2 is going to turn on camera 2 at dusk and off at dawn.

Also you have more than 4 cameras in one group. 1-4,5-8,9-12 and 13-16.
Turn one on and the other three in the group go off. If you have cameras in two groups. Turning on a camera in one group will not turn off a camera in a different group. So two on may interfere with each other.

I am not camera software experienced. So I hope others can add more for you.
I would hope the software can trigger on a motion address and control cameras on a different address. Knowing enough to turn off any camera that is on before turning the new one on.
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geeforce

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2011, 01:24:20 PM »

How would you advice addressing the 7 cameras?
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geeforce

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2011, 01:31:32 AM »

ha Brian just giving you and update on where I'm at on the installation. First of all i made a mistake when i posted this thread. These are wireless cams. I went over to her house today to install the software. When i installed her packaged software i noticed vanguard was included. After my experience with vanguard i was dead set on not installing it. I opened AHP and the add camera was not in the module list to add the cameras. Reluctantly i installed the vanguard software and the add camera modules was there. Maybe it was a fluck and vanguard had nothing to do with it, but it worked. I added the cameras into AHP and the problem that i had before wasn't there. The camera's were switching and staying on for the 1 min. allotted time (even at night). Perhaps the video receiver was getting interference (connected to a TV) from the plug she is using, but the laptop is not getting the interference. Anyway I'll try using a different house code to trouble shoot that later. Anyway the problem I'm seeing there now is that when i switch to a camera that camera's view will come up, but when it switches due to motion. The camera view switches but the tab doesn't. Example: i switch manually to the in kitchen using AHP and the video comes up, but when motion starts say for instance in the bedroom. the cam view for that room changes but not the tag in AHP. it will still be on the kitchen tab for every camera switch. What every the cameras view is it will stay at that tab when the camera switches. She is satisfied with it just being able to take photo's to caught a crook, but I'm not. I know AHP is better than that, because it work great for me. So the problem must be with my troubleshooting. I am kinda mad with X10 because this lady bought over $500 worth of equipment and they didn't give her all the plug ins for AHP. She received AHP, Iwatchout, Iwatchout pro, and vanguard. Anyway do you know how i can get the cameras to switch along with the camera's location tab? also she is getting some interference from some cams. the laptop she is using is an satellite laptop. new to my knowledge. how can i do portforwarding with this. on another note. I've been looking at the other post and i can't believe that i was once 1 of the dashers. After i found out how to make it work for my house it works perfectly. Anyway thank you for your help with this installation. What i know now is you bash because you don't understand. Thanks again for your help.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 01:48:34 AM by geeforce »
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Brian H

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Re: need advice on installation on cameras.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2011, 09:50:05 AM »

Thank you for the update.
I have no experience with Vanguard so I don't have much to add.
There are others Vanguard users here and I am sure they will give you the information you need.

You may want to look over the wiki software data.
Here is the link to the list.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Software
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