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Author Topic: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop  (Read 9550 times)

Noam

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 12:43:12 PM »

An On or Off to the LampLinc should work fine. Dimming maybe a problem. Though calling it a Old before Soft Start Lamp Module. May have AHP send a stream of dim or bright commands.
It should work okay if defined as a "Wall Switch" from the "Old Lamps" section.

You can also define it as a "Florescent decorator Wall Switch" from the "old Lamps"  category.
That usually gets AHP to send the older "on" and "off" commands (instead of the newer Extended Dim commands).
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 05:39:52 PM »

Have things set up for another "test".  It turns out I misunderstood the role of the "store in interface" check box in the timed section.  I thought the check meant I didn't have to download the modules and timers to the interface (i.e. AHP would take care of it automatically).  This meant that the interface didn't have any info (since I unplugged and pulled the batteries looking for a reset).

Once I did the download, I could control the test modules directly from the computer.

I have things set up now in a way that will test whether removing dawn/dusk makes a difference.

This thread has been a great learning tool.

I'll post back results including the activity log.

Liv
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Noam

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 09:11:57 PM »

Did you determine which of your modules are SoftStart, and which are not?
Did you set them appropriately within AHP?
Another suggestion is NOT to mix different classes of modules (Appliance modules with Lamp modules, and even SoftStart with non-SoftStart modules) on the same HouseCode / UnitCode combination. since each type requires a different set of commands to operate, you may not get the desired results.
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2011, 09:13:21 AM »

Thanks for checking back.  If I understand the explanations in earlier posts, the answer is "yes, I've identified them" and "yes, I've changed the definition in AHP".  It comes down to 2 wired-in light switch (push button) modules.  I've set them up as "Older Lamp (no SoftStart)" and "Wall Switch Module".

I noticed one of them (didn't check the other) came on last night.  I'm going to watch them again tonight to make sure their working.

I've assumed that all the old wired-in wall recepticals (plugs) are not "no SoftStart".

Interesting idea to split things over house codes.  I'll go ahead and do that.

One module we haven't talked about yet is a motion sensor and RF plug-in.  I haven't gotten around to checking what the sensor part looks like in X-10.com terminology.  The RF device shows I bought it from an X10 company in Las Vegas and has a model code of "PAT01".

It is on a different house code but happens to be the same one as the sample room in AHP.  To get a good test, I'm going to change that to one other than the one the lights are on.

Finally, there's some good news on the "test" light controllers.  The 3-pin plug-in appliance modules worked last night and this morning!!!  Probably now have a good base configuration for them so I can start some tests like moving back to dusk/dawn (although a 1-hour delay/advance limit may not be enough for my preference).

Since prior to the failure of the old controller, these lights were controlled by receptical modules, I pulled the 3-pin plug ins and plugged the lights into the controlled recepticals.  They respond to manual on/off and I'll see tonight whether they work with the timers.







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Noam

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2011, 09:45:58 AM »

Thanks for checking back.  If I understand the explanations in earlier posts, the answer is "yes, I've identified them" and "yes, I've changed the definition in AHP".  It comes down to 2 wired-in light switch (push button) modules.  I've set them up as "Older Lamp (no SoftStart)" and "Wall Switch Module".

I noticed one of them (didn't check the other) came on last night.  I'm going to watch them again tonight to make sure their working.
That's good news. That means you're on the right track now!

Quote
I've assumed that all the old wired-in wall recepticals (plugs) are not "no SoftStart".
Yes, the wall-outlet models are equivalent to "appliance" modules, and only have on/off functionality (no dimming).
There should be a definition within AHP for them, though.

Quote
Interesting idea to split things over house codes.  I'll go ahead and do that.
It wasn't so much to split them across house codes, but rather to make sure that you didn't have two different types of modules sharing the same Unit code address.

Quote
One module we haven't talked about yet is a motion sensor and RF plug-in.  I haven't gotten around to checking what the sensor part looks like in X-10.com terminology.  The RF device shows I bought it from an X10 company in Las Vegas and has a model code of "PAT01".

It is on a different house code but happens to be the same one as the sample room in AHP.  To get a good test, I'm going to change that to one other than the one the lights are on.
The PAT01 is the X10 Pro equivalent to the RR501 transceiver. It is used to to receive RF signals from hand-held remotes or motion sensors, and transmit those commands along the power lines. It also has a built-in appliance module, which can be set to either Unit Code 1 or 9, on whatever House Code you set the module. Keep this in mind when assigning Unit codes, you don't want it to cause a conflict (or have the audible "Clunk" when you turn on some other device that shares the same code).

Quote
Finally, there's some good news on the "test" light controllers.  The 3-pin plug-in appliance modules worked last night and this morning!!!  Probably now have a good base configuration for them so I can start some tests like moving back to dusk/dawn (although a 1-hour delay/advance limit may not be enough for my preference).
Make sure the modules are working in the locations where you plan to use them, before making other changes. As with any troubleshooting, changing only one variable at a time is usually better.

Quote
Since prior to the failure of the old controller, these lights were controlled by receptical modules, I pulled the 3-pin plug ins and plugged the lights into the controlled recepticals.  They respond to manual on/off and I'll see tonight whether they work with the timers.
Let us know how it goes.
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2011, 12:54:09 PM »

Norm,

This is the comment that made me think you were suggesting splitting the house code for different device types.
Quote
Another suggestion is NOT to mix different classes of modules (Appliance modules with Lamp modules, and even SoftStart with non-SoftStart modules) on the same HouseCode / UnitCode combination. since each type requires a different set of commands to operate, you may not get the desired results.

Sounds like some folk might set up multiple modules with the same house.unit code, presumably to "group" the devices and save some time (i.e. make changes for the group vs. for each module).  Also useful if they have more than 15 modules.

Hadn't thought of doing that.  For now, I'm keeping every device (hardwired or plug in) on a unique "address".  Although I can't remember why, I put the X-10 Pro PAT01 (RR501) on a different house code ("A" instead of "C" which I use for all other modules).  Unfortunately I chose the same house code as the sample room in AHP.  I'll change the sample room modules to a different house code just to remove that variable.

When I get around to testing the PAT01, I'll review the instructions.  I vaguely remember the unit's manual address setting was just for the lamp plug.

Liv



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Brian H

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 01:05:16 PM »

The PAT01's AC output. Is an appliance type. So any load suitable for an appliance module can be controlled by it.
Now having the CM15A and the PAT01 tranceive the same House Code could lead to problems. Though both are polite and try not to step on each other. It could be possible to have both units send a power line signal at the sametime and garbage the signal.
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Noam

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 01:45:18 PM »

This is the comment that made me think you were suggesting splitting the house code for different device types.
"Another suggestion is NOT to mix different classes of modules (Appliance modules with Lamp modules, and even SoftStart with non-SoftStart modules) on the same HouseCode / UnitCode combination. since each type requires a different set of commands to operate, you may not get the desired results."
Sounds like some folk might set up multiple modules with the same house.unit code, presumably to "group" the devices and save some time (i.e. make changes for the group vs. for each module).  Also useful if they have more than 15 modules.
Actually it is for those people that have two or three plug-in lamps in the same room, and they want all of them to come on and go off together. Setting them for the same HouseCode/UnitCode is the best way, since only one command is needed, and all three respond to it. However, if the modules are different types, that won't work too well.

Quote
...Although I can't remember why, I put the X-10 Pro PAT01 (RR501) on a different house code ("A" instead of "C" which I use for all other modules).  Unfortunately I chose the same house code as the sample room in AHP.  I'll change the sample room modules to a different house code just to remove that variable.

When I get around to testing the PAT01, I'll review the instructions.  I vaguely remember the unit's manual address setting was just for the lamp plug.

As Brian noted, the outlet on the PAT01 is equivalent to an Appliance module, not a Lamp module (it has no dimming).
If you plan to use any RF remotes, or motion sensors to directly control your lights or appliances, then the PAT01 needs to be on the same HouseCode as the modules you plan to control.

As Brian also noted, the CM15A and PAT01 (or RR501) are both capable of receiving RF signals, and sending them out on the powerline. Depending on your setup, you might not need the PAT501 at all.
The CM15A is notorious for having very poor RF reception range, but there are a number of fixes for that, at least one of which doesn't involve opening up the unit or voiding the warranty. You can do a search for "Antenna Mod" in the forums and find the various options. I'm using the "passive reflector" type of mod on mine, and it works really well for me.
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2011, 12:51:36 AM »

I have great news (and a lot of gratitude)!

With the exception of the PAT01, everything is running.  And it's not that I'm having problems with the PAT01; I just haven't worked on it yet.

The PAT01 is used with a motion sensor (mounted right on the other side of the wall where the PAT01 is plugged in).  You may find this humorous: the motion sensor is right next to a pet door.  Don't want those dogs and cats going outside at night without a light.  On a more practical level, its a minor deterrent against other animals thinking about coming in through the pet door.

It's far more convenient to have the CM15A in a different room, so I'll want to get the PAT01 working.  The posts about the device have been helpful and will guide me when I work on it.

Quote
Actually it is for those people that have two or three plug-in lamps in the same room, and they want all of them to come on and go off together. Setting them for the same HouseCode/UnitCode is the best way, since only one command is needed, and all three respond to it. However, if the modules are different types, that won't work too well.

This makes a great deal of sense.  Keeping in mind the guidance on not mixing module types, I'll be able to take advantage of the technique.

Before closing out the thread, note I am not using dawn/dusk in any of the timers.  If I had my druthers, I'd prefer they work.  Now that I have a solid "baseline" it will make testing much more productive.  I'll change one or two modules and see what happens.

I also may need some additional help on the PAT01.

Because this has been such a very thorough tutorial, I'll close the thread with a post summarizing my learning as a legacy for others.

Liv



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dave w

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2011, 11:18:44 AM »


Quote
Actually it is for those people that have two or three plug-in lamps in the same room, and they want all of them to come on and go off together. Setting them for the same HouseCode/UnitCode is the best way, since only one command is needed, and all three respond to it. However, if the modules are different types, that won't work too well.

This makes a great deal of sense.  Keeping in mind the guidance on not mixing module types, I'll be able to take advantage of the technique.

Lamp Modules and Appliance Modules on the same HC/UC will respond equally well to simple X10 "ON" and "OFF" commands.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 11:20:58 AM by dave w »
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2011, 12:57:57 PM »

Moving on the the PAT10 and (I assume I have) an EagleEye Activehome sensor (that I bought years ago).

I won't have a lamp plugged into the PAT10.  Instead, I want motion to activate another module in the house, specifically a no-SoftStart light switch module (on/off only).  Can I do that and, if so, do I do it with a macro or is there another approach systemic to the PAT01?

Given the house code is "C" for all the other modules (including the one I want to control) I assume I'll need to change the house code in the sensor to HC "C" vs. the default HC "A".

In addition, is the manual HC/Unit setting on the PAT01 only for the built-in appliance plug?

Liv
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dave w

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2011, 02:41:28 PM »

http://www.x10pro.com/pro/pdf/pat01.pdf

This information is in the PAT01 Instructions

1. Yes
2. You don't need a macro for the Eagle Eye/PAT01 Transceiver to directly control the Wall Switch module. You would need a macro if you wanted the wall switch to turn on only under special conditions (i.e. when not home and motion detected,etc) or if you want the light to do something other than turn on when motion and turn off after no motion ( i.e. on motion, turn on, dim 50%, wait 30 minutes then bright to 100%, wait 5 minutes then turn off, etc). In that event you would not have the motion detector and the wall switch on the same UC.
3. The PAT01 would be set to HC "C" if that is the HC of the wall switch you want to control.
4. Yes
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 02:59:24 PM by dave w »
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Noam

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2011, 10:25:43 PM »

Lamp Modules and Appliance Modules on the same HC/UC will respond equally well to simple X10 "ON" and "OFF" commands.

Yes, but if you define that HC/UC as a lamp module (with SoftStart), then AHP won't send the simple ON and OFF commands.
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Livingston

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2011, 11:55:30 PM »

Quote
Yes, but if you define that HC/UC as a lamp module (with SoftStart), then AHP won't send the simple ON and OFF commands.

I'll be interested in where this conversation goes.

More results:  The test (one module) of the dusk setting has been successful.  Because of earlier posts mentioning possible issues with dusk/dawn, I'll continue to monitor closely while expanding the setting to other modules.  For now, though, and at least in the case of a non-SoftStart wired light switch module, things work.  My next test will expand to a wired plug receptacle.

Liv
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dave w

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Re: Can't get time program to work but can control module from laptop
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2011, 05:03:43 PM »

Lamp Modules and Appliance Modules on the same HC/UC will respond equally well to simple X10 "ON" and "OFF" commands.

Yes, but if you define that HC/UC as a lamp module (with SoftStart), then AHP won't send the simple ON and OFF commands.
Guess I should have been more clear. If you are only sending simple ON-OFF commands and want to combine Appliance Module and Lamp Module on same HC/UC (say for an alarm function, which is my application),  you would define as an Appliance Module.

As far as AHP not sending simple ON-OFF commands, isn't that deviation specific to a Lamp turned on via a timer, or turning on to a DIM level?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 05:10:49 PM by dave w »
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