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Author Topic: 120v or 240 VAC  (Read 6518 times)

aware

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120v or 240 VAC
« on: June 30, 2011, 04:25:02 PM »

Hello all,

New here on the forum, I really like it.
My question:
I am from Greece, and as I understand in Europe the X10 works @433 Mhz and 240VAC.
Now, I was thinking that I can buy from ebay at really good deals some X10 and use them as follows:
1) SC2900 Security Console - I just need to change transformer from 120VAC->12VDC to 240VAC->12VDC
2) Use remotes (PalmPad) that work @ 310Mhz but also have transceivers that work @310 MHz.
3) I just wonder if transceivers and modules for lamp and appliances that work with 120VAC can operate if I connect them to 240VAC (ok, by fitting the right plug).

What do you think of the above thoughts?
Ideas/advices more than welcomed.

Best regards,
Al
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Knightrider

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2011, 04:37:34 PM »

The step down transformers would kill the x10 signals.  I think the Xformer in the SC1200 has the PLC transmitter in it, so swapping that would be useless, unless you could find one made for X10.

It's a nice theory, but I don't think any of it will work.
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dbemowsk

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2011, 06:06:25 PM »

I believe the security console you will need to use is the Marmitek brand controller which is the SC9000.  I think that the other components would also be branded by Marmitek.
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Brian H

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2011, 06:14:29 PM »

1) SC2900? Is not a part number I have seen.
The 120 volt SC1200 has a wall wart supply that also has the power line transmitter in it.
The European SC9000 has been mentioned already. It would use all the 433.92 MHZ RF stuff and the proper 240 volt 50Hz power supply.

2) Technically a US RF sender should work with a US Tranceiver as they are on the same frequency, Though your country may use 310MHz for something different and you could interferer with something.

3) No they will not work with 240 volts even if you change the AC input plugs. There where modifications on some web sites to convert them to 240 volts. Problem most cover the older revision modules and don't cover the presently manufacturered modules at all.
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm

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aware

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2011, 06:54:15 PM »

I simply can't grasp the difference in pricing...
A HR12A is 5 times more expensive in the european version...
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dhouston

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 06:57:17 PM »

The step down transformers would kill the x10 signals.
Not necessarily. The ESM1 X-10 Signal Strength Meter uses a step down transformer from 120VAC to 12VAC (my memory may not be exact here) and I've used a 120VAC to 25VAC transformer as a way to reduce the line voltage for viewing on my 'scope. It also passed the 120kHz X-10 bursts. There are a few screenshots on my web page but I can't recall exactly which articles.

I think this has become urban legend by applying what may be true for the utility company's stepdown transformer to all transformers. You can also use a capacitor between primary and secondary as a bandpass filter. 

That said, I would recommend buying European modules from Marmitek or Laser Business Systems. They'll be worth it in the long run and much less trouble. Also, things like X-10's wireless thermostat use 433.92MHz.
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Brian H

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 07:36:30 PM »

We have had reports that some stepdown transformers didn't pass X10 signals while others do.
Guess it depends on the transformers construction.
The cap from primary to secondary has been reported to work if needed.

I saw the article on using the ESM1 to record X10 signals. On your site. Yes it is 12 Volt AC into the ESM1 meter from the wall transformer.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 07:46:44 PM by Brian H »
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dave w

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2011, 09:56:47 AM »

I've used a 120VAC to 25VAC transformer as a way to reduce the line voltage for viewing on my 'scope. It also passed the 120kHz X-10 bursts.
Any attenuation?

I think my two EMS-1 may have some additional coupling internal to the wall wart. I put coaxial connectors on both my units and in the process I tried a generic 120 to 12V AC wall wart and got no reading.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 10:01:30 AM by dave w »
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dhouston

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2011, 02:19:54 PM »

I've used a 120VAC to 25VAC transformer as a way to reduce the line voltage for viewing on my 'scope. It also passed the 120kHz X-10 bursts.
Any attenuation?
I really don't recall - it was too long ago for my enfeebled 70-year old brain to remember such details. However, if you look at the screenshots taken thru the ESM1 120VAC:12VAC, there's little evidence of attenuation. Unfortunately, you cannot force enough current thru the transformer to make it work in reverse.
As best I recall, I was looking at the 5-10Vpp superimposed on the 25VAC (~70Vpp) at ZC so I doubt I could have noticed any attenuation. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 02:39:33 PM by dhouston »
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aware

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2011, 05:13:39 PM »

Thanks for all valuable replies..
However, may I still again ask why so much big difference in pricing between US and European models?
 B:(
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dave w

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2011, 05:24:20 PM »

Thanks for all valuable replies..
However, may I still again ask why so much big difference in pricing between US and European models?
 B:(
$0.02

I can't speak for all, but I think we in US are puzzled by this also. I suspect Marmitek is an independant company and bases their prices on predicted volume. I suspect X10 120V, 60Hz stuff outsells 240V 50Hz stuff by 10:1.

("$0.02" - American shorthand for "this guess isn't worth two cents")  :D
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dhouston

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Re: 120v or 240 VAC
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2011, 08:08:05 PM »

However, may I still again ask why so much big difference in pricing between US and European models?
Wrong question. Ask, instead, why there are so many different plug styles in Europe.
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