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Author Topic: Future of X10  (Read 172771 times)

Knightrider

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2011, 08:16:12 PM »


Just waiting for X10 OFFICIAL notification before I jump ship :)

Beelocks: you know that if we all jump ship at the same time, the boat will rock too far.  Methinks it best for the captain to remain mum, less the ship go down.
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beelocks

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2011, 08:23:35 PM »

But 'tis also rumoured that the rats are the first to leave a sinking ship  rofl
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JeffVolp

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2011, 09:55:24 PM »

I have my first Insteon order all worked out and ready to go.

I have been testing with an Insteon 2-way module running in the X10 mode.  It has some neat features that the X10 stuff didn't.  But I guess you could expect that for 5X the price.  It will monitor the load and transmit whenever it is switched on or off.  Of course, the discontinued X10 LM14A could do that too.

Jeff
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dhouston

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #108 on: September 03, 2011, 03:24:53 PM »

I have been testing with an Insteon 2-way module running in the X10 mode.  It has some neat features that the X10 stuff didn't.  But I guess you could expect that for 5X the price.  It will monitor the load and transmit whenever it is switched on or off.

It's been awhile so I may not recall exact details but I had a few of their least expensive switches controlling some 60+ year old fluorescents plus a couple lamp modules, all with X-10 addresses set. They report local changes but, IIRC, also report changes from PLC commands so you get actual feedback from the switch/module about its state. And, they respond to Status Requests. Also, their dimmable switches and modules use the Preset Dim commands so you have 32 levels in X-10 mode. They do not, however, respond to microdim commands.  

« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 03:27:32 PM by dhouston »
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Brian H

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #109 on: September 03, 2011, 07:27:36 PM »

Since the Insteon modules are two way. When not sending. They do absorb some power line signals.
In a mixed system. They send a %dim when locally dimmed and an X10 controller will not understand it.
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dhouston

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #110 on: September 03, 2011, 07:44:21 PM »

Insteon devices setup with X-10 addresses report changes by sending a Preset Dim so most controllers should understand it. Perhaps the latest X-10 software will not report it correctly. X-10 removed Preset Dim from their documentation a few years back. I've never used any X-10 software so I don't know.

As for absorbing signal, I thought that would be a big issue when I tested the early Insteon modules but I've heard from a number of people with extensive mixed systems who say it's not a significant problem. It would be simple to design around that (there was an Italian X-10 design by Irave that disconnected the transmitter except when sending PLC and there were other powerline modem chips that did the same) but I suppose Smarthome isn't really interested in making life easier for X-10 devices. See the Bruce Robin paragraph below.


If Jeff is designing a controller, he can handle these in whatever manner he wishes. I would suggest an option for X-10 software and another option for others.

Bruce Robin is a long time X-10 user with homes in Hawaii, Southern California & Houston, TX. He went nearly all Insteon  in Hawaii but has since said he would have stayed 100% X-10 had the XTB been available, earlier. He has since added the XTB in Houston. He has told me the signal absorption issue is not much of a problem and he is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable X-10 users you are likely to find.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 07:55:52 PM by dhouston »
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Brian H

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #111 on: September 03, 2011, 07:47:06 PM »

I tried Insteon dimming switches with AHP. Local dimming didn't show in AHP.
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Noam

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #112 on: September 03, 2011, 08:47:58 PM »

I have a number of Insteon switches in my home, but (as far as I know), all of them are relay-type switches, not dimmers.
I do have two Smarthome dimmer switches, but they are not Insteon (as far as I know), and didn't respond to Extended Dim commands.
I also have a pre-insteon Smarthome relay switch, with a remote switch (replacing a pair of 3-way switches).
I haven't had any problems with signal absorption, but I do have an XTB-IIR.
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JeffVolp

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #113 on: September 03, 2011, 10:49:18 PM »

If Jeff is designing a controller, he can handle these in whatever manner he wishes. I would suggest an option for X-10 software and another option for others.

It is not a controller.  It is a powerline interface that emulates the "real-time" portion of the CM11A protocol.  It doesn't include controller functions like timed events or macros.  It is targeted for PC-based automation systems, such as Homeseer or Home Control Assistant (HCA).  I should be addressing the last issues identified by the beta testers now.

Jeff
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pomonabill221

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #114 on: September 04, 2011, 04:55:47 AM »

Hey all... aren't we getting away from this threads topic?  The Future of X10?
Anyone have any new POOP on this?
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dhouston

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #115 on: September 04, 2011, 08:02:18 AM »


I do have two Smarthome dimmer switches, but they are not Insteon (as far as I know), and didn't respond to Extended Dim commands.

They made one X-10 only dimmer module just before introducing Insteon which included Preset Dims, Status Request, etc. but I do not recall the model number. I have one stowed somewhere. If I come across it I'll post the model number.

As for post-X10, should it come to pass, there were some European companies looking to get into this market 10-12 years ago not long after the X-10 patent expired. Whether they still have any interest is hard to say - I haven't heard from them in some time.

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HA Dave

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #116 on: September 04, 2011, 10:25:11 AM »

Hey all... aren't we getting away from this threads topic?  The Future of X10? Anyone have any new POOP on this?

Rumors and hearsay.
There was a post on an AirPad thread... where B.A. asked:

But what's going on with the rest of the HA products?

YB (from X10) replied:
What do you mean? They aren't going away anytime soon, and our apps work on the AirPad.

A recap from MY crystal ball (NOT official, I don't have any inside or special info): There does seem to be manufacturing difficulties.... with the plant in China reported to be closed. I.. myself... don't think such import problems are exclusive to X10. Nor do I think the problem is new. Several items have been dropped from the X10 products catalog in recent years. Basic modules and switches however are at least currently available. It might be a good time to stock up.

Over the decades who makes what cheap electronic items has moved around the globe a bit. Not just with X10... all such items... as well as some toys and things. Suppliers may be in a temporary flux. The temporary term may be my own optimism. But... Home Automation (no matter which flavor you prefer) has never been anything other than a niche in the market place. Yet X10 (and HA) has continued to hang around since the mid 70s.

Current economic times provide challenges for businesses of all shapes and sizes. Who knows if General Motors, Bank of America, or your local corner bar will survive. I don't.... my crystal ball has it limits. I'd bet the crystal ball they use at X10.... isn't that much better.



« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 10:36:41 AM by HA Dave »
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JeffVolp

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #117 on: September 04, 2011, 11:17:11 AM »


Whether X10 continues to manufacture cheap automation products probably doesn’t affect many of us here.  Most of us already have fairly extensive automation systems, with spares of some of the items.  And the common devices like wall switches, lamp, and appliance modules still seem to be readily available.  As others have said, it is a good idea to stock up now if you have plans to expand your system in the future.

The main thing I have seen is the huge selection of cheap X10 products on eBay has disappeared.  While most common devices are still available, some like the Maxi Controller are hard to find today.  And prices of some products, such as the XPPF filter, have increased significantly.

If X10 has indeed ceased manufacturing, SmartHome and Leviton both offer X10 compatible products.  The SmartHome dimmer module works very well, and I am contemplating replacing some of my existing X10 lamp modules with them for the additional features.  All the X10 compatible wall switches we use here are Leviton, and they have worked very well with no failures over the last 8 years.

The bottom line is if we lose X10 as a supplier, there are other sources of equivalent devices.  And it may benefit some of the other manufacturers still in the X10 arena.  The down side is we won’t be able to buy modules for $5 each anymore.

Jeff
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pomonabill221

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #118 on: September 04, 2011, 01:37:46 PM »


The main thing I have seen is the huge selection of cheap X10 products on eBay has disappeared.  While most common devices are still available, some like the Maxi Controller are hard to find today.  And prices of some products, such as the XPPF filter, have increased significantly.

The bottom line is if we lose X10 as a supplier, there are other sources of equivalent devices.  And it may benefit some of the other manufacturers still in the X10 arena.  The down side is we won’t be able to buy modules for $5 each anymore.

Jeff

Yes I have noticed that my favorite supplier on Ebay stopped listing his 2,3,4 packs and has only singles now.  I JUST ordered from him several multipacks on Aug 20 at his "regular" low prices, and on Aug 29 I went to order a few more, and WOW!!!! his prices have double and tripled (in some cases), and the multipacks were no more!!!
   I was SHOCKED!!! :'( :'( B:(
  I emailed him and he said that X10 had increased their prices and cut his supply drastically!  I guess!!!!
  Other distributors have done the same thing, but I did find a source that still had "cheaper" prices (automatedoutlet.com) so I placed an order with them for more goodies.
  Anybody else found a cheap distributor?
  I just wonder if X10 will continue to update the software and "fix" bugs? :'
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dave w

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #119 on: September 04, 2011, 05:10:14 PM »

  I just wonder if X10 will continue to update the software and "fix" bugs? :'
If they have permanently closed the factory doors, I doubt it. I doubt they would assign overhead to projects that would not result in revenue (more module sales).
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