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Author Topic: Future of X10  (Read 172694 times)

luke03

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2011, 05:12:01 PM »

X10 devices works, cheap, and pretty reliable in my experience. It does not provide encryption, but that is not a secret.  Actually, any of those competitor claimed having security will not be able to stand for hacking eitehr.  None of them can be used by banks or military for gaurd the safe or neuclear weapon.

I think there is a huge market for X10 to stay.
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YB

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2011, 07:19:05 PM »

I think there is a huge market for X10 to stay.

I completely agree!
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aptalca

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2011, 10:33:01 AM »

X10 devices works, cheap, and pretty reliable in my experience. It does not provide encryption, but that is not a secret.  Actually, any of those competitor claimed having security will not be able to stand for hacking eitehr.  None of them can be used by banks or military for gaurd the safe or neuclear weapon.

I think there is a huge market for X10 to stay.


Well, let's not exaggerate. Those systems weren't designed for banks or nuclear facilities. They were designed for homes. The level of hacking needed to crack z-wave for instance would take serious commitment and skill, usually not worth the effort for just messing with somebody's automation system. For X10, all you need is an X10 remote and pushing a few buttons while switching through 16 house codes. (I am also guessing most of the users here use multiple house codes as well) Anybody is capable of messing with somebody's X10 system. But few people are able to mess with z-wave, and not easily.

Bottom line, X10 requires NO hacking, just a regular X10 remote, but those other systems actually DO require hacking. That's the difference
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pseeker

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2011, 10:48:21 AM »

I think there is a huge market for X10 to stay.
It may be huge but there is no money to be made by X10  otherwise they would continue selling.  This is assuming the cepro article assertion is true.... I wish X10 would formally challenge cepro if it is not correct.  It can't be good for current and future business.
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dhouston

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2011, 11:37:10 AM »

The level of hacking needed to crack z-wave for instance would take serious commitment and skill, usually not worth the effort for just messing with somebody's automation system. For X10, all you need is an X10 remote and pushing a few buttons while switching through 16 house codes.

To mess with someone's Z-Wave automation system, all you need do is record & playback the encrypted signal - who cares what the original unencrypted bytes are? Encryption in this context is meaningless except as a selling point for marketing to the gullible.
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B.A.

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2011, 12:25:30 PM »

This is assuming the cepro article assertion is true.... I wish X10 would formally challenge cepro if it is not correct.  It can't be good for current and future business.
[/quote]

I agree. Without any clarification, I highly doubt my next module will be X10. I will probably migrate to Insteon if I'm unsure about X10 product availability.

As far as encryption, I have set up my system keeping in mind the fact that it could easily be compromised. If someone were to "breach" my system, I wouldn't blame the product,
I'd just have to make changes accordingly
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JeffVolp

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2011, 12:58:01 PM »


The susceptibility for X10 systems to be “hacked” is not really an issue for most automation systems.  Yes, a malicious neighbor could mess with your lights or sprinkler system.  But it is unlikely that neighbors will even know what X10 is.  None of mine ever have.  And should this become a factor for you, just install a PZZ01 to block X10 signals coming in over the utility feed.  You can also install a filter on any exterior outlets.

That leaves the issue of RF control.  If security became an issue there, it is relatively easy to use macros requiring a two-command sequence to initiate a powerline control function.

We use X10 because it is cheap, and can work very well with an adequate signal to noise ratio.

Jeff
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X-10 automation since the BSR days

Dan Lawrence

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2011, 10:15:36 PM »

X10 devices works, cheap, and pretty reliable in my experience. It does not provide encryption, but that is not a secret.  Actually, any of those competitor claimed having security will not be able to stand for hacking eitehr.  None of them can be used by banks or military for gaurd the safe or neuclear weapon.

I think there is a huge market for X10 to stay.


Well, let's not exaggerate. Those systems weren't designed for banks or nuclear facilities. They were designed for homes. The level of hacking needed to crack z-wave for instance would take serious commitment and skill, usually not worth the effort for just messing with somebody's automation system. For X10, all you need is an X10 remote and pushing a few buttons while switching through 16 house codes. (I am also guessing most of the users here use multiple house codes as well) Anybody is capable of messing with somebody's X10 system. But few people are able to mess with z-wave, and not easily.

Bottom line, X10 requires NO hacking, just a regular X10 remote, but those other systems actually DO require hacking. That's the difference

Since X10 is NOT mass marketed it's not heavily known.  I suspect everybody who posts here got turned on to it by a friend who was already turned on to the wonder of X10.   
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JeffVolp

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2011, 03:52:29 PM »

Since X10 is NOT mass marketed it's not heavily known.  I suspect everybody who posts here got turned on to it by a friend who was already turned on to the wonder of X10.

I started back when Sears had their boxy "Home Control System" (Maxi Controller) on sale for $44.99.  I have the receipt right here - dated 2/11/81.  I'll bet not many people can dig something like that up.  That would probably be about $100 in today's dollars, which shows you what manufacturing in China as done for the cost of electronics.

Jeff
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X-10 automation since the BSR days

Noam

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2011, 04:36:13 PM »

I got my first X10 stuff when I was living in NY, so that had to have been around 1999.
X10 was having the $10 "firecracker" kit sale (CM17A, PalmPad, TM751, LM465), and I picked up a few of them.
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dhouston

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2011, 04:56:26 PM »

That would probably be about $100 in today's dollars, which shows you what manufacturing in China as done for the cost of electronics.

Close, but a bit low. It would be about $117 in the following comparison. But it might depend on just when in 1981 you bought it. Reagan/Volker drove interest rates above 20% and the value of the dollar dropped in '81. Some companies were raising prices on a monthly schedule.

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HA Dave

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #101 on: September 02, 2011, 06:55:17 PM »

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dave w

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #102 on: September 02, 2011, 07:34:53 PM »

The future of X10? Well now we know:  http://www.x10.com/wireless_rf_light_control/amer_rfk100lc.html?EM

:o
Oh wow! This is first time I have seen this! I think you are right Dave, X10 isn't going to be making RF/PLC controls any more. Otherwise they would not be selling competing products.

Well there is always Insteon at four times the cost....man I am bummed.  :'(
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beelocks

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #103 on: September 02, 2011, 08:07:53 PM »

I have my first Insteon order all worked out and ready to go.

Just waiting for X10 OFFICIAL notification before I jump ship :)
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dave w

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Re: Future of X10
« Reply #104 on: September 02, 2011, 08:14:40 PM »

Just waiting for X10 OFFICIAL notification before I jump ship :)
I wonder if they will say anything? They may just start pulling stuff off the web site as they sell out, while at the same time adding more third party products until a CM15A battery reset is but a dim memory for us all.
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