Contact | X10.com
October 31, 2014, 01:43:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: The X10 Community wants to know how you use your X10 system!
Share your story in the Automated Home Showcase.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: X10 & Compact Fluorescent  (Read 13828 times)
tom j
Hero Member
*****

Helpful Post Rating: 16
Posts: 1275


« on: August 29, 2011, 06:16:09 PM »

Hi I really love my x10 Home Automation system although I will have to post concerning a problem I'm having with my AHP unit. My question is whats going to happen when the government mandates these new energy efficient compact fluorescent bulbs, I'm particularly concerned about the x10  wall switches I don't think the current switches are compatible and other then stock up for the next 20 years of the old incandescent bulbs what are we to do.  Huh


Tom j.
Logged
Dan Lawrence
Advanced Member
Hero Member
******

Helpful Post Rating: 68
Posts: 4000


« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 03:58:45 AM »

Some CFLs put out noise that block X10 signals plus many lamps that are 3-way can't use CFLs as the unit is too big for the lamp harp.  The only way to use CFLs with X10 is to try some and see what happens.  I've had CFLs on the same circuit that caused noise that stopped 5 X10 modules from getting signals.
Logged

I don't SELL this stuff... BUT I sure do ENJOY using it!!!
tom j
Hero Member
*****

Helpful Post Rating: 16
Posts: 1275


« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 09:22:24 AM »

Some CFLs put out noise that block X10 signals plus many lamps that are 3-way can't use CFLs as the unit is too big for the lamp harp.  The only way to use CFLs with X10 is to try some and see what happens.  I've had CFLs on the same circuit that caused noise that stopped 5 X10 modules from getting signals.

Hum.. that doesn't sound good wondering if x10 has any plans to address this. Will those x10 wall switches work with compact fluorescence's I thought I read you needed a filament for it to work. Thanks!

Tom j.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 05:01:53 PM by tom j » Logged
Dan Lawrence
Advanced Member
Hero Member
******

Helpful Post Rating: 68
Posts: 4000


« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 06:43:10 PM »

CFL's come with bases like a standard light bulb.  You screw it into a lamp and it lights up.   What I wrote about was NOISE!  Some CFLs put out noise on the power line that blocks X10 signals, believe it or not it's trial and error.  I had one in a light going up to my attic.  None of the X10 controlled lights on that circuit worked, until I replaced it with a standard light bulb. 
Logged

I don't SELL this stuff... BUT I sure do ENJOY using it!!!
Noam
Community Organizer
Hero Member
**

Helpful Post Rating: 46
Posts: 2593


« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 05:53:41 AM »

As to your question about the switches, that may be where you might right into a problem.
X10 switches require a small amount of constant power to operate. Otherwise, they would never be able to listen for commands, and respond to them.
The "two-wire" switches (the ones that only connect to the "Line" and "Load" wires, and not the "Neutral" wire) work by running a very small amount of current through the load in order to get the power to run. Most florescent bulbs (including most CFLs) are not designed to be able to pass this small amount of current. Those bulbs need a switch (or module) that has a connection to the "Neutral" wire, in order to always get power.
Logged

dave w
Hero Member
*****

Helpful Post Rating: 124
Posts: 5264


« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 06:19:16 AM »

Hum.. that doesn't sound good wondering if x10 has any plans to address this.
The brewing mandate problem has no X10 solution, other than replacing all X10 two wire wall switches with three wire switches, which requires a neutral line in the wall box. And most homes do not have neutral lines in all their wall switch boxes.  This is a serious two pronged problem for X10's future. The majority of all the wall switches they have ever sold are "essentially" incompatible with CFL's and more CFLs generate more noise. There are ways, at the consumer level, which can "coax" a CFL to work with a two wire X10 switch, but involves ways of leaking enough current past the CFL to keep the electronics in the X10 switch active (incandescent nightlights in the circuit, resisters in the circuit, etc.)

This may be why we see X10 branching out in their market products. I think they see the hand writing on the wall.
Logged

"This aftershave makes me look fat"
tom j
Hero Member
*****

Helpful Post Rating: 16
Posts: 1275


« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 05:07:02 PM »

CFL's come with bases like a standard light bulb.  You screw it into a lamp and it lights up.   What I wrote about was NOISE!  Some CFLs put out noise on the power line that blocks X10 signals, believe it or not it's trial and error.  I had one in a light going up to my attic.  None of the X10 controlled lights on that circuit worked, until I replaced it with a standard light bulb. 

You might of been talking about noise BUT I Wasn't. Noam and Dave addressed my concerns about compatibility. Thanks!

Tom j.
Logged
Noam
Community Organizer
Hero Member
**

Helpful Post Rating: 46
Posts: 2593


« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 06:39:04 PM »

With the abundance of two-wire timers installed throughout the US, I would think that some innovative manufacturer would have come up with a homeowner-compatible solution by now.
They would need to design a bulb that would be able to pass that small current when it was off, yet not interfere with the normal operation of the bulb.
Sounds like a patentable idea.
Logged

JeffVolp
Expert Advisor
Hero Member
*

Helpful Post Rating: 93
Posts: 1571



WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2011, 08:38:07 PM »


To deal with the CFL/LED bulb problem, it would be easy to build a combined filter and current path into a socket extender like the Socket Rocket.  There is a potential huge market for something like that.

Jeff
Logged

X-10 automation since the BSR days
Noam
Community Organizer
Hero Member
**

Helpful Post Rating: 46
Posts: 2593


« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 05:02:20 AM »


To deal with the CFL/LED bulb problem, it would be easy to build a combined filter and current path into a socket extender like the Socket Rocket.  There is a potential huge market for something like that.

Jeff
So, what are you waiting for? Put me on the mailing list!
Logged

JeffVolp
Expert Advisor
Hero Member
*

Helpful Post Rating: 93
Posts: 1571



WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 05:21:20 AM »


To deal with the CFL/LED bulb problem, it would be easy to build a combined filter and current path into a socket extender like the Socket Rocket.  There is a potential huge market for something like that.

Jeff
So, what are you waiting for? Put me on the mailing list!

Unfortunately, that is not a product I could offer.  To make it cost effective it would have to be made in China in large volume.

Jeff
Logged

X-10 automation since the BSR days
Noam
Community Organizer
Hero Member
**

Helpful Post Rating: 46
Posts: 2593


« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 06:35:22 AM »

Aww.
I'm sure it could also be done as something that goes across the hot and neutral, at the fixture. That would be better for fixtures that don't have the clearances to use a socket extender.
Logged

JeffVolp
Expert Advisor
Hero Member
*

Helpful Post Rating: 93
Posts: 1571



WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 06:59:16 AM »

I'm sure it could also be done as something that goes across the hot and neutral, at the fixture. That would be better for fixtures that don't have the clearances to use a socket extender.

That couldn't include a low-pass filter to block noise and prevent signal attenuation.

Jeff
Logged

X-10 automation since the BSR days
Noam
Community Organizer
Hero Member
**

Helpful Post Rating: 46
Posts: 2593


« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 07:04:39 AM »

I'm sure it could also be done as something that goes across the hot and neutral, at the fixture. That would be better for fixtures that don't have the clearances to use a socket extender.

That couldn't include a low-pass filter to block noise and prevent signal attenuation.

Jeff
I'm sure you're right (I have no idea what I'm talking about with these things most of the time Wink ). I guess it would have to be installed in-line with the fixture (like any other filter), but would also have to be able to pass current across at the same time.
Logged

dave w
Hero Member
*****

Helpful Post Rating: 124
Posts: 5264


« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2011, 07:28:44 AM »

A fixture based "leaker" would still be helpful to get the old switches to work. X10 users would just have to spread the word about what brand of CFL bulbs do not generate "in band" noise.

I wonder if something as simple as a proper wattage resistor at what ever resistance is needed to leak enough current (I don't know what value should be, I don't know what a WS467 draws while idle) with white and black insulated wires attached to make it easy for the non technical to wire in a fixture. Just insert the leaker between the black and white, nutted wires in the fixture. I wonder how the resistor would have to be mechanically protected to get NEC approval.

Might be a simple product that could be sold for 5 or 6 bucks.
Logged

"This aftershave makes me look fat"
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | X10 Mini Timer
© Copyright 2013 X10.com All rights reserved.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!