Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The X10Hub (PiX10Hub) is here! Created by the Community, for the Community.:)% #:)

Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?  (Read 46811 times)

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2011, 03:48:17 PM »

Thanks for the updates on your progress and findings.
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Helpful Post Rating: 107
  • Posts: 2059
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2011, 11:26:14 PM »


The photos below show graphically what the XTB-ANR can do to your electrical environment.  The X10 signal was measured through a X10 Pro XPCP passive coupler, so this is showing “in-band” noise that will effect X10 transmissions.

The first photo shows noise being generated by a Lumoform 120V 4W LED light.  As you can see, this nasty device generates an incredible amount of powerline noise.  Frequency measurements show the noise is almost directly centered in the X10 bandpass.  Of particular interest is that burst of noise that occurs just after each zero crossing.  That is inside the X10 transmission window, and blocks X10 modules on its circuit from decoding zeros.  The second photo shows the noise reduction after the XTB-ANR is added to the circuit.  That critical noise burst has been reduced significantly.



Lumoform LED bulb powerline noise with no XTB-ANR



Lumoform LED bulb noise with XTB-ANR plugged in

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2011, 06:00:21 AM »

Looks good.
That LED bulb is your famous X10 noise maker.  ::)
Logged

Noam

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 49
  • Posts: 2800
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2011, 08:45:30 AM »

Wow!
Jeff - I'm truly in awe of your intelligence and ingenuity.
I can't wait to see what you come up with next!

How about a portable noise detector? You would walk around the house with it, and just like an old-fashioned game of Hot/Cold, it would tell you as you are getting closer to the noise source.
Don't ask me how it would work, that's YOUR job to figure out ;)

Okay, that may be a little unrealistic, but how about some sort of pass-through noise meter (maybe as an add-on for the XTBM). It would work similar to the Kill-A-Watt, but would tell you how noisy the device is, not how much power it draws.
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Helpful Post Rating: 107
  • Posts: 2059
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2011, 09:39:14 AM »

... but how about some sort of pass-through noise meter (maybe as an add-on for the XTBM). It would work similar to the Kill-A-Watt, but would tell you how noisy the device is, not how much power it draws.

Actually, you can make something like that yourself pretty easily.  Just plug a cube tap into a XPPF filter, and then plug both the XTBM and device under test into the cube tap.  That will isolate it from the powerline, and give an "unloaded" measurement of how much noise it produces.

BTW, that Lumoform LED bulb is the worst X10 noisemaker I have run across.  I don't think I could do much better if I set out to design a noisemaker myself.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

Noam

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 49
  • Posts: 2800
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2011, 10:11:21 AM »

... but how about some sort of pass-through noise meter (maybe as an add-on for the XTBM). It would work similar to the Kill-A-Watt, but would tell you how noisy the device is, not how much power it draws.

Actually, you can make something like that yourself pretty easily.  Just plug a cube tap into a XPPF filter, and then plug both the XTBM and device under test into the cube tap.  That will isolate it from the powerline, and give an "unloaded" measurement of how much noise it produces.
That sounds easy enough (I've got a few Filterlinc filters, I have cube taps. All I'm missing is the XTBM ;) ).

Quote
BTW, that Lumoform LED bulb is the worst X10 noisemaker I have run across.  I don't think I could do much better if I set out to design a noisemaker myself.
Sounds like it is the perfect thing to test all your wonderful products! You should pick up a few more, in case this one ever goes bad.
Logged

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2483
    • davehouston.org
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2011, 10:19:05 AM »

How about a portable noise detector? You would walk around the house with it, and just like an old-fashioned game of Hot/Cold, it would tell you as you are getting closer to the noise source.
Don't ask me how it would work, that's YOUR job to figure out ;)
You probably have one already. See post #5 at...
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

Noam

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 49
  • Posts: 2800
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2011, 10:43:16 AM »

How about a portable noise detector? You would walk around the house with it, and just like an old-fashioned game of Hot/Cold, it would tell you as you are getting closer to the noise source.
Don't ask me how it would work, that's YOUR job to figure out ;)
You probably have one already. See post #5 at...

Good point. I had read that thread (or one with similar instructions) at some point, but I had forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me.
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Helpful Post Rating: 107
  • Posts: 2059
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2011, 06:22:54 PM »


For those of you who inquired about XTB-ANR kits, the new silkscreened PCBs have arrived, and I will be packing up kits over the next several days.  Here is the first draft of the assembly notes:

    http://jvde.us/xtb/XTB-ANR_assembly.htm

All documentation is available on the XTB home page:

    http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

systemdm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Helpful Post Rating: 17
  • Posts: 76
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2011, 10:24:45 PM »

Jeff gave me the opportunity to beta test this unit.  I purchased the XTBR a while back and it corrected a lot of my issues, but I still had some intermitten ones.  The XTB-ANR corrected them all.
I also removed the filters in my system, and it has been flawless.

Here are some of my findings:

   My girlfriend came by Friday night with her HTC EVO smart phone and charger.  Plugged it in and immediately on the XTBM I got:  "High Noise Level"  then  "JXX STR"  then it alternated between "err bsc" and ^Noise^.  My HR12A remote would NOT turn on a nearby light.
 
Then I plugged in the XTB-ANR.  That's when the "High Noise Level" changed to "Noise Decrease".  The noise went from 11 down to 0.  The X9.99 dropped to X9.37.   The HR12A began to work.
 
Another example:
I have a porch light that has been intermittent in operation.   Since plugging in the XTB-ANR, it has been rock solid.     #:)

Logged

Myronbg

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 11
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2012, 02:27:28 PM »

PG&E installed a Smart meter last month and since then I've had various weird issues with my x10 system. Over the last month, not knowing it was the Smartmeter "fault" I've tried all manner of potential solutions. In my process I tried one of my FilterLinc in between various suspected appliances and disconnected other potential noise sources. I finally realized that it might be the Smart meter, did a "google" and found this post. Now that I know the culprit is the Smartmeter I guess the Filterlinc, being unit specific won't fix the noise problem. So. (1) is your filter available? (2) if so where and how is it installed) and (3) how much $
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Helpful Post Rating: 107
  • Posts: 2059
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2012, 08:03:45 PM »


I have been working with a customer in the Cincinnati area to come up with a good solution.  The XTB-ANR was designed to combat noise produced by random electrical products, such as switching power supplies and CFLs.  The smart meter in the Cincinnati area contains a very powerful transmitter, and even the XTB-ANR could not solve the problem by itself.

What seems to work is installing special low-frequency clamp-on ferrite filters over the incoming service entrance cables.  (One filter per cable seems to work, but two per cable would be even better.)  Then we add a notch filter to attenuate the smarter meter signal that still passes through the clamp-on filters.  The last I heard there were no erroneous actuations in over a week with the current configuration.

We will be testing another filter in the near future, and I should have a final solution available in the near future.

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days

ElectroChallenged

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 1
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2012, 12:45:01 PM »

Jeff, do you have any update on this?  I just joined this forum as I was getting the random lights turning on in my mom's house (near Cincinnati) in the middle of the night. She has a Smart Meter also.
Logged

JeffVolp

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Helpful Post Rating: 107
  • Posts: 2059
    • XTB Home Page
Re: Active Noise Reducer – Maybe the CFL Silver Bullet?
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2012, 05:48:54 PM »


A fix for the Echelon smart meter that is being deployed by Duke Energy in the Cincinnati area was discussed here:

    http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26056.0

The kit is listed near the bottom of the XTB Ordering page:

    http://jvde.us/xtb/xtb_ordering.htm

Jeff
Logged
X-10 automation since the BSR days
Pages: 1 2 [3]
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.