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Author Topic: Insteon to X10?  (Read 18740 times)
SirPoonga
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« on: December 01, 2011, 12:44:19 PM »

I know many Insteon modules can receive X10.  Is there any module that will receive an Insteon signal and send an X10?  I have a bunch of X10 lamp modules that I would like to integrate with my Insteon network.  I know the Insteon and X10 are different protocols and X10 is power line only.  I am wondering if there is some device out there that you can have watch for a particular Insteon signal and output a particular X10 signal.
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Noam
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 01:05:26 PM »

I'm not positive, but I think the Insteon computer interfaces can incorporate X10 addresses into macros and timers.
So, I think you can have a macro, triggered by an Insteon command, that will send X10 commands from the controller.

I suggest calling SmartHome and asking them. Their Insteon people really know their stuff.
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Brian H
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 01:07:51 PM »

Insteon devices can send and receive X10 commands if they have an X10 Primary Address added to them.
I have a SwitchLinc Relay wall switch with A3 programmed into it. It can be turned On and Off by a Insteon command or X10 command. It also sends an X10 A3 On or Off if locally switched.

Actually all of my Insteon Devices have an X10 address in them. I still use my HR12A Palm Pad with sixteen buttons, to control them.

I know my Universal Devices ISY99i can do it, but it is a high end controller.

Noam has a good idea as I don't have much data on their HouseLinc Software running on one of their 2413SH or 2413UH interfaces. Calling Smarthome or looking in their forums will get you great assistance.
http://www.smarthome.com/forum/default.asp
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 01:13:12 PM by Brian H » Logged
dhouston
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 01:32:42 PM »

The HouseLinc 2 Manual says "X10 devices cannot be added to the Devices list in HouseLinc 2. However, they are controlled (manually or automatically) in HouseLinc 2 events."
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http://davehouston.org/coupling.htm Powerline Phase Coupling
http://davehouston.org/noise.htm      Understanding X10 Noise
http://davehouston.org/x10-sig.htm   X10 PLC Signal Strength & Phantom Power
SirPoonga
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 02:10:27 PM »

I have a SwitchLinc Relay wall switch with A3 programmed into it. It can be turned On and Off by a Insteon command or X10 command. It also sends an X10 A3 On or Off if locally switched.
Does it repeat?

What if I have an Insteon wireless switch, like RemoteLinc 2, you need to have it receive the Insteon signal and send an X10.  Ideally I am looking for a module that plugs into the wall that does this.  But if there is a wall switch that you hard wire like the Switchlinc that supports it I would think there is plugin module that supports it.  I'll contact Smarthome see what they say.  Otherwise go through the manuals of the modules.

I have mostly X10 lamp and appliance modules.  I have an single Insteon module that right now I am only using the X10 part.  I am going to be replacing everything with Insteon over time but it would be nice for everything to work together.  I am going to start with getting Insteon switches as the X10 remotes and switches have a horrible range.  If the Insteon products can repeat the signals that eliminates that problem. 

Right now in my living room, because it is so big, I have an X10 receiver on both sides of the room and a stick on wall switch on both sides of the room.  That was the only way to have the switches reliably turn the lights on.  But I also have X10 products to unlock and light up the door if someone rings.  I can see them from my living room and will let them in if I know who they are.  (The door is on the first floor, living room on main floor - townhouse).  It was not fun trying to setup everything to work reliably.

Unless you guys have a better idea for that situation, but I would like to switch to Insteon wireless remotes and get rid of the X10 remotes.  I am also thinking about one of those Insteon IR modules since I have a Logitec Harmony remote.
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Brian H
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 03:27:59 PM »

Insteon modules and their Dual Band Devices also used for phase coupling. Do not repeat X10 commands. They only pass Insteon commands to other modules.

A long time ago there was a Beta module that would Translate Insteon to X10 and X10 to Insteon. It never made it to production as it had big issues with things like X10 dim commands streams. I know of no production module to do what you want as a standalone.

RemoteLinc2's are RF senders only. They go into a suspend mode to conserve batteries and have to be woken up to be written to. When adding deleting links. I don't think they can do X10 commands.

There is one module made by Simplehomenet. It can act like an all address X10 RF transceiver and have some X10 addresses mapped to an Insteon scene, from an X10 RF or power line command.
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Brian H
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 03:43:11 PM »

Added information.
In my example of the SwitchLinc Relay.
If I use my RemoteLinc to turn a scene it is in On. There is no X10 command sent when it goes On.

If I use my Palm Pad to turn On A3 the SwitchLinc. It does not send an Insteon status change to my ISY99i controller.

When I turn it On and Off with the local paddle. It sends an On or Off to any other Insteon module linked to it and an X10 A3 On or Off on the power line.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 03:51:09 PM by Brian H » Logged
SirPoonga
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 04:44:09 PM »

I will see what Smarthome has to say.  It seems like everything is X10 to Insteon but not the other way.  That usually indicates some legal reason to not be able to do it.

Worst case scenario I can use the EZIO4O and solder the button of an X10 remote to one of the relays.
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Brian H
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 03:21:37 AM »

Yes the EZIO40 could do it if needed. Smarthome may have an idea for you. I don't have much data on their controllers but do know my ISY99i can take a Insteon On or Off from a RemoteLinc and trigger a program to send an X10 command.

I think it is more a real need for such a module, as X10s patents expired years ago. To make a Insteon to X10 module.

Smarthome had dropped all of their X10 only compatible modules until recently.
With many factors pointing to X10 dropping all their devices for third party devices. Smarthome again has started to make X10 only compatible devices.

One point. Insteon and Icon modules are two way. The power line transmitter Will absorb some of the signals. Some have found as they added Insteon modules. X10 got worse as Insteon got better.
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Noam
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2011, 07:49:05 AM »

Brian has given you a TON of useful information.
I had looked into that whole-house RF receiver unit (I think it is this one:
http://www.smarthome.com/31276/INSTEON-X10-RF-Wireless-Sensor-Receiver-EZX10RF/p.aspx ) when I was having such severe problems with my X10 that I was contemplating a full switchover to Insteon. (Turns out all I had to do was buy my neighbor a new CFL bulb!).
From what I remember, this unit can map and X10 address to an Insteon on, which would allow you to use a PalmPAd to turn on or off an Insteon device or scene. Unfortunately, I think that's the opposite of what you need.

I think the computer interfaces, and their associated software can do what you need. Aloternatively, you could get the EZIO40 (or similar), and connect it to either a hacked X10 remote, or an X10-version of the multiple-input unit. (It is like a few PowerFlash modules rolled into one - I don't remember the name of it though). You could then wire the contacts up, so the Insteon command would trigger the X10 command on the other unit. Seems pretty Rube-Goldberg-ish, but it would probably work (I've often considered solutions which would have me wiring the output of a Universal Module to the input of a PowerFlash. Seems silly to me, but sometimes it is the easiest option.

Another way to go might be to use the Insteon equivalent of the X10 TW523/PSC05, along with an actual TW523/PSC05 and an Arduino, and write a "translator" app. I'm getting ready to do something similar to *half* of that (monitor my X10 system using an arduino hooked to the digital port of my XTB-IIR - which emulates a TW523).
It could listen for specific Insteon commands, and then transmit the appropriate X10 command. You could even make it go two-ways, and have X10 commands that trigger Insteon ones.

From what I've read (I haven't gotten time to play with it yet), the Arduino code is pretty simple - there are ton of examples for interfacing with X10 out there already. I have to imagine interfacing with the Insteon side can't be that much harder (I saw some examples, but didn't look into it since it didn't apply to my project). I know the Arduino hardware is cheap, and I've seen TW523/PSC05 units online for pretty cheap. I don't know what the Insteon module will cost you.
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SirPoonga
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 08:07:35 AM »

Oh, the Arduino.  Why did I not think of that.  That is something I do know something about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_cK9FAbxxw
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JeffVolp
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 08:22:44 AM »

Another way to go might be to use the Insteon equivalent of the X10 TW523/PSC05, along with an actual TW523/PSC05 and an Arduino, and write a "translator" app. I'm getting ready to do something similar to *half* of that (monitor my X10 system using an arduino hooked to the digital port of my XTB-IIR - which emulates a TW523).

If you are doing that to monitor powerline traffic, you could take advantage of the "return all bits" mode option to monitor the powerline virtually real-time with no error checking.  Since that mode drives the digital port for the entire half-cycle, I use it to monitor powerline traffic on my digital storage scope.  It allows a lower sampling rate to capture a much longer time frame.

Jeff
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X-10 automation since the BSR days
Brian H
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2011, 08:30:39 AM »

The Insteon 2413S {Serial} or 2413U {USB} Dual Band Powerline Modem can send and receive both Insteon and X10 commands on the power line and process the Insteon RF commands.
Many folks have written programs to go through the PLM, for their own microcontroller.
I am not familiar with Arduino interfaces but maybe it could.

My ISY99i standalone controller interfaces to the outside world with a 2413S.

There is some information here and even a link to the PLM Developers Guide.
http://www.madreporite.com/insteon/insteon.html
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 08:34:37 AM by Brian H » Logged
SirPoonga
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 09:01:41 AM »

Brian, that is perfect.  Serial is serial, really doesn't matter which microcontroller you use.
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Noam
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« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2011, 09:21:00 AM »

Another way to go might be to use the Insteon equivalent of the X10 TW523/PSC05, along with an actual TW523/PSC05 and an Arduino, and write a "translator" app. I'm getting ready to do something similar to *half* of that (monitor my X10 system using an arduino hooked to the digital port of my XTB-IIR - which emulates a TW523).

If you are doing that to monitor powerline traffic, you could take advantage of the "return all bits" mode option to monitor the powerline virtually real-time with no error checking.  Since that mode drives the digital port for the entire half-cycle, I use it to monitor powerline traffic on my digital storage scope.  It allows a lower sampling rate to capture a much longer time frame.

Jeff

Would this have any impact on my current setup (using it with a CM15A plugged into the front)?
What if I want to send commands through that port, do I need to change it back?

I haven't had time to play with it yet. The Arduino just arrived yesterday, and I was busy all evening.
Perhaps this weekend.

Thanks.
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