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Author Topic: lights randomly turn on  (Read 24953 times)

gga

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2012, 05:02:29 PM »

Duke turned off my Smartmeter hookup 3 or 4 days ago and since then I've had NO random events where my lights turned on.  So for me it appears the problem is fixed.
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dave w

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2012, 06:49:02 PM »

And more conformation that Smart Meters play havoc with X10 protocol. Thanks for keeping the forum up to date.
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cjhallx

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2012, 09:57:58 PM »

My HAM radio turns on every X10 device i pass by. Especially on 222mhz
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acce06t

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2012, 01:11:21 PM »

GGA,  glad to hear (I guess!) that Duke has taken you off the Smartmeter until they come up with a solution.  While we are gone, we removed the light bulbs from all the lights that are x10.  We will be back in town the end of March and plan to contact Duke again.  Thanks for your information.
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JeffVolp

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2012, 01:26:34 PM »


We have a solution that is working very well to eliminate the Duke Smart Meter problem at one home in the Cincinnati area.  It involves installing several low-frequency clamshell ferrite filters over the "hot" service entrance cables inside the distribution panel, and then installing a XPNR or custom filter to attenuate the remaining signal.

The smart meter rejection kit is available on my website.  Duke expressed an interest in it about a month ago, but as yet they have not purchased even one kit.

Jeff
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dave w

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2012, 02:23:32 PM »


The smart meter rejection kit is available on my website.  Duke expressed an interest in it about a month ago, but as yet they have not purchased even one kit.
Well, since X10 was here long before Eschelon and Smartmeters, Duke should be buying them from you in bulk to supply to X10 homes. It sounds like Duke is being cooperative by turning off the meter communications for complaining X10 customers, but I wonder how long that will last(?).
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acce06t

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2012, 04:36:44 PM »

Update.  Duke has finally turned off the smartmeter transmitter and my problem is solved.  My X10 lights have not randomly turned on or off since.  Duke had to notify my neighbors first because they had to turn off the smartmeter transmitter at the main box that transmitted to them also.  For some reason, Duke could not just do something to my meter.  So, unfortunately, my problem affected the entire neightborhood.  Talked to a couple neighbors about it, consensus was -- they could care less!  Life is good again.
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Noam

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2012, 01:17:02 PM »

Update.  Duke has finally turned off the smartmeter transmitter and my problem is solved.  My X10 lights have not randomly turned on or off since.  Duke had to notify my neighbors first because they had to turn off the smartmeter transmitter at the main box that transmitted to them also.  For some reason, Duke could not just do something to my meter.  So, unfortunately, my problem affected the entire neightborhood.  Talked to a couple neighbors about it, consensus was -- they could care less!  Life is good again.
That's really good to hear.
If Duke REALLY wants to use the SmartMeter functions for your house (and the neighbors around you), they could always look into a better model of SmartMeter, one that doesn't mess up Home Automation systems.
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2012, 09:34:45 PM »

I don't thing a "a better model of SmartMeter, one that doesn't mess up Home Automation systems" will ever be made.  BGE in Baltimore has an "opt out" for those of us who don't want to have to put out $$$ to keep our X10 working properly or for other reasons.  I've already put my name in the "no smart meter" list.
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dhouston

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2012, 06:40:37 AM »

There are a multitude of SmartMeters that do not put anything on the powerline, even including the Echelon meters chosen by Duke which offer multiple methods for communicating with the data aggregators which then send the data to the power company. In some areas, Duke chose to use the powerline between the meter and aggregator.

And, I suspect, it's only one area around Cincinnati where Duke has gone this way. I live a few miles away in a Northern Kentucky city (Fort Mitchell) which Duke used as a test area for the SmartMeters. In 5 years or so I've seen no issues with X10 although that may partly be due to the fact that my switches were made by Smarthome.

I also suspect the fundamental problem is with X10's designs rather than with the meters. Only certain X10 switches seem to be affected and they are models that have a lengthy (pre-SmartMeter) history of being affected by spikes and other noise on the powerline. In fact, two of the Cincinnati area victims tried Smarthome-made modules on the same addresses without seeing any random events. 
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Noam

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2012, 09:20:22 AM »

I don't thing a "a better model of SmartMeter, one that doesn't mess up Home Automation systems" will ever be made.  BGE in Baltimore has an "opt out" for those of us who don't want to have to put out $$$ to keep our X10 working properly or for other reasons.  I've already put my name in the "no smart meter" list.
From what I've read, the Landis+Gyr Focus AXR meter that Pepco (boo!) is supposed to be installing on Monday doesn't communicate over the powerline at all. It uses a wireless transmission network that is completely independent of the power lines.

Since last weekend's storm, Pepco had a really hard time keeping track of which customers were still without power. As they restored power to a large feeder, their system assumed that ALL customers served by that feeder were restored, and those who still did not have power had to call again to report their outage. It happened to us AT LEAST 3 times in the 104 hours we were without power.  If having a SmartMeter will help the utility know when my power goes out, and let them know when they REALLY have restored it, I'm all for it.

Even if YOU don't get a SmartMeter on your house, if BGE installs them for your neighbors, and if they decide to use powerline communications for those, it STILL could mess up your X10 system.
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JeffVolp

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2012, 10:12:02 AM »

I also suspect the fundamental problem is with X10's designs rather than with the meters. Only certain X10 switches seem to be affected and they are models that have a lengthy (pre-SmartMeter) history of being affected by spikes and other noise on the powerline.

The Echelon smart meter that we tested uses very powerful signals just below the X10 bandpass.  X10 modules do not have a sharp enough input filter to reject those signals.  If they did, tuning of the transmitted signals would be more critical.  (I measured an old Sears Maxi Controller at 130KHz, and it was still controlling modules just fine.)

Jeff
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dhouston

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Re: lights randomly turn on
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2012, 02:16:36 PM »

The Echelon smart meter that we tested uses very powerful signals just below the X10 bandpass.  X10 modules do not have a sharp enough input filter to reject those signals.  If they did, tuning of the transmitted signals would be more critical.  (I measured an old Sears Maxi Controller at 130KHz, and it was still controlling modules just fine.)
I had intended to edit my post to include X10's wide pass-band as another contributing factor but got involved with another task. I once tested several modules and found most responded to 75-150kHz and, IIRC, the designer of the ESM1 meter told me he found about the same.

Even the Echelon meters can use ZigBee between meter and aggregator. It was just a choice made by Duke and, judging from lack of reports from other areas within Duke's widespread territory, only in Cincinnati. And, one other factor is that when these meters sense noise in their pass-band, they crank up the volume and a very high amplitude signal might have the same effects as an inductive spike.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 02:33:33 PM by dhouston »
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