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Author Topic: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices  (Read 4141 times)

scades

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Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« on: December 03, 2011, 02:59:02 PM »

I have needed to control lights from a very awkward place in terms of installing an ordinary wall box, so I ran, years ago, a 6-pair cable to the location. (Cable ends in the basement--no problems with an installation from there.) Because the lights in question will be on X10 wall switches elsewhere, I need to use push-on/push off SPST buttons, not a simple PSDT to control a device like the PSC01. So--I need an X10 module that will toggle an on-signal and an off-signal (to the wall switch) as I push the SPST button.
I thought there was an X10 device that plugged in to an outlet and operated that way, but I now can't locate it--or, of course, I may be hallucinating.
While I am a long-time X10 user, I don't plan to go ActiveHome any time soon, so I need a non-computer-based solution.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 03:03:07 PM by scades »
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Brian H

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 03:10:49 PM »

So you want to use a SPST push button that is momentary and not an alternating On or Off with each actuation?
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dhouston

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 03:26:15 PM »

Your best bet would be a Stick-a-Switch communicating with a TM751 or RR501.

I do not recall any X-10 toggle in N. America although there is one in Europe.
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Brian H

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 03:31:34 PM »

Yes some of the European devices have features we never got.
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dhouston

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 04:47:25 PM »

The OP is probably recalling the Powerflash (EBay) but I don't believe it was a toggle but needed an on/off switch closure.
If you cannot use an on/off switch, you might be able to use a push-button to toggle a latching low-voltage relay which, in turn, toggles the Powerflash.

If the cable is in-wall and there's room for a switchplate as well as a bit of room behind it, you could mount a rocker switch like the one below in a blank wallplate and use it to control the Powerflash - no voltage needed.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 05:22:48 PM by dhouston »
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scades

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 08:11:19 PM »

So you want to use a SPST push button that is momentary and not an alternating On or Off with each actuation?


Exactly!
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twood

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2011, 02:35:33 PM »

Why not just use the companion (or slave) switch for the 3-way wall switch?  It won't confuse anyone wondering :Is this the light switch?"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X10-Home-Automation-3-Way-Wall-Switch-w-Slave-WS4777-/220795715526?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3368733fc6#ht_670wt_906
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scades

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2011, 03:00:03 PM »

Thanks to all.

twood, I appreciate your reply, but the reason I have this problem is that I can't run a piece of Romex to the location where I need the control. I've got some twisted pairs there but that was the best I could do.

Unless I'm missing something, the slave switch does require connection to a 120V hot/neutral line.

--Steve
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Brian H

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 03:12:29 PM »

First I believe it is not legal to have low voltage and AC wiring in the same electrical box if there isn't a divider between them.
I was thinking of a small DC NO relay contact wired in the X10 switch box from the Line to the Control connection to simulate a slave switch  and then using a low voltage control signal from the basement on the twisted pair.
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scades

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 03:23:20 PM »

Brian--

Right--NEC prohibits both 120V on anything but approved (14 ga minimum) cable, and mixing low and house voltage in the same box (without a divider, that is). I used to have a few 12 V latching relays around, and indeed used them 45 [sic] years ago to control GE relays. (Anyone old enough to remember those things?). Maybe I'll hunt some up. The ones I remember plugged into old 8-pin vacuum tube sockets. Ah, transformers, aluminum chasses, hole punches.... Those were the days.
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Brian H

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 03:34:10 PM »

Oh yes. I can remember stuff like that. When vacuum tubes where cheap and a transistor was like $50.00.
One of my final tests in Electronics School was draw a transformer less 5 tube AM radio and explain what each part did to make it work.  ;D

Ah the glow of a final output tube in a Motorola Base Station. That had lost its grid bias and the glass sucked in because it started to soften.
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twood

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 09:45:17 PM »

Thanks to all.

twood, I appreciate your reply, but the reason I have this problem is that I can't run a piece of Romex to the location where I need the control. I've got some twisted pairs there but that was the best I could do.

Unless I'm missing something, the slave switch does require connection to a 120V hot/neutral line.

--Steve

I think one of us is missing something...I'm suggesting using the companion switch as a dry contact input to the universal module as you mentioned earlier.  Use one of your twisted pairs and not a romex cable.  It would complete your X10 switch setup and no realtor or home inspector would have any problems with it.
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luke03

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Re: Need "push-push" to send on/off signals to X10 devices
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2011, 04:40:20 PM »

If you have X10 RF receiver, one way to do this is to hook up a WebControl board (sold at Amazon.com). The push button will then go to one TTL input pin. You can write a small PLC code paste into its GUI.  In that PLC code, you check if TTL1 is on, like
TSTEQ IP1 1
CALLSUB light1

Then in the light1 sub routing, you will toggle a variable RAM1, if that was zero, you send a X10 command to turn on, then set the RAM1 to 1.
If that RAM1 was 1 already, you then send a x10 command to turn off, then set RAM1 to zero.

I am using one of this to control lights and garage door. It works well for me.
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