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Author Topic: A little confused about continuous vs momentary  (Read 3930 times)

colinml

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A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« on: December 17, 2011, 09:35:08 PM »

I've been setting up a system to run my hot water circulating pump as efficiently as possible.  I have a Redy Temp controller, which includes a timer and an aqua-stat.  I set the timer to run on a schedule.  During scheduled "active" times, the pump will kick on whenever the temperature in the water pipe drops below 95 degrees.  During scheduled "dormant" periods (like the middle of the night), I'm adding x10 motion sensors to over-ride the timer and cause the pump to kick on for one cycle, bringing the pipes up to temperature so I can wash my hands in the middle of the night, or whatever.  The Redy Temp has an RJ11 jack, and is designed to work with x10 push buttons or motion sensors.

I'm not sure whether to set the UM506 to continuous or momentary.  I'm also confused about how to set the "off" delay since I want the aqua-stat to handle "off" commands, not the motion sensors.  Momentary seems right, but when I do that the UM506 clacks every few seconds (people working in the kitchen activating sensor).  Seems like these units would wear out quickly with this constant switching.

Help, please?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 09:42:46 PM by colinml »
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kenrad

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2011, 10:19:39 PM »

If you are using active home or better yet Ihouse you can design macros to allow you to only have the motion sensor trigger the universal module at set times you would set it up so the macro would read that if it is after a set time and the motion sensor it triggered the macro would then send a diffferent code to the module.  This would require a computer and an interface to accomplish and if you can't find a cm15a interface which x10 is phasing out but can still be found on ebay would require a pc running at all times. 


 >!kenrad
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colinml

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 01:08:48 AM »

Thanks for the reply.  I'm not using any software.  Are you saying that it won't work without using a PC and software?
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Dan Lawrence

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 02:20:04 AM »

That's exactly what kenrad is saying.
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I don't SELL this stuff... BUT I sure do ENJOY using it!!!

Brian H

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 07:09:57 AM »

Does the Redy Temp override need a pulse or continuous closure to keep it in the override mode?
Which Motion Sensor are you using?
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colinml

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2011, 05:14:02 PM »

I think it's just a pulse.  The web page describes wiring it directly with momentary (i.e., doorbell) switches using phone cable which simply plugs in to the RJ11 jack on the Redy Temp.  My understanding (somewhat limited) was that a doorbell button closes the contacts momentarily, triggering the pump to run one cycle, one cycle being long enough to bring the temperature up to the point at which the aqua-stat signals "off."  My thinking was that, once the momentary switch signaled "on," the Redy Temp ignores any further "on" signals, until it receives an "on" signal AND the temperature at the aqua-stat is below the setting I chose.  After describing this set-up on the Redy Temp page, they add, "this can also be accomplished with wireless motion sensors."  I'm using MS16A motion sensors,  a UM506 universal module and an RR501 two way transceiver.

The thing I didn't think of is that, with door bell buttons, I control how many times it gets pushed, but with the motion sensors, it's like me standing there pushing a doorbell button all day long, every few seconds, when people are moving around the kitchen and bathrooms.  The Redy Temp doesn't have any problem ignoring this (at least, I don't think it does), and it seems to work, in the sense that the pump does, in fact, cycle on during "dormant" periods when motion is detected, but I don't think the x10 stuff will last very long if it is being switched constantly, and there is the issue of the constant clacking noise.  

I guess I'm still confused about the delay setting, too.  How does the delay "off" work when the universal module is set to "momentary"?  Or is it irrelevant in that case?  I guess my brain isn't wrapping around this very well, but I'm having trouble figuring out the point of this stuff if it isn't possible to do what I'm describing without the drawbacks I described.  I mean, say I was just going to turn on a light as I walk into a room.  I have two options, I can set to momentary, but then I have to listen to the transceiver and the universal module clack every few seconds (unless I remain absolutely motionless), or I can set to continuous, but I will find myself in the dark after 256 minutes, at which point I have to wave my arms.  How are either of those more convienient than using a lightswitch located next to the door?  The only application I can think of is a security light that comes on and then turns itself off after a few minutes, or a nightlight that does the same, but both of those are readily available at any home center for less money in a single package.

I think I must be missing some fundamental aspect here.  Seriously, no sarcasm.  Sincerely puzzled.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 06:02:27 PM by colinml »
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Brian H

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2011, 06:08:06 PM »

The motion sensor will send an On signal everytime it detects motion no way around it. There is a 30 second minimum time between motion detection.
X10 does not make a motion sensor anymore that only sends an On Only. Though with the UM506 set to momentary it would still clunk all the time.

When the UM506 is set to momentary it will go Off before the Off command from the motion sensor. So you can say ignored.

If you are using the default A1 address. You can set the 1-9 Unit switch to 9. That will at least stop the RR501 from clicking. Unless you are using the outlet on the RR501 for something.

I would imagine the UM506 would wear out sooner than an occasional trigger.

For what you are trying to do. I am not sure X10 will do it for you. There are some other brand modules that are quiet and can be set to an X10 address. But the constant motion signal will still be a problem.
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Brian H

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2011, 06:10:26 PM »

Possible you could do it if you where running program with AHP.
Triggered by the motion sensor and then the program could determine if another On was really needed. To the UM506 on a different address from the motion sensor.
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colinml

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Re: A little confused about continuous vs momentary
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2011, 06:16:03 PM »

Thanks Brian.  I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out.  The additional info helps me figure out where else I might be able to use the stuff I just bought.  As it turns out, after insulating my pipes, I think the water is staying hot enough so that the pump is only cycling a few times in a 24 hour period anyway, so the motion sensor activation thing is superfluous.  I'll probably just set the timer schedule for "off" between midnight and 5:00 AM and see how it goes.  Even at 3:00 AM, I would still have water hot enough to wash my hands.
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