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Author Topic: A Simple Project (Hopefully)  (Read 4349 times)

G_Sup

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A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« on: February 21, 2012, 11:04:24 AM »

Hi guys, I have dabbled with X-10 products in the past and have always had a Slimline wall remote that controls 3 different lights in the same vicinity of the living area.  I just moved and am now renting and since the house is older it doesn't have some of the features that I have been used to in newer houses.    Like for instance, wall switches that control lights in bedrooms!!!  Actually each bedroom has a hardwired wall switch but they all appear to control absolutely NOTHING.  So, what I would like to do is pretty simple.  I would like to simply plug a lamp into a X10 reciever and into a socket and then have an X10 wall switch control the lamp (each one independent for each room).  I like the simplicity of the slimline controller since it simply just sticks to the wall, however I don't need all 3 switches, but at the same time I don't want to deface the wall since I'm renting.  I'm a total noob to this and I'm sure there must be an easy solution, but I'm having a difficult time navigating and understanding the components on X10's website.

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Thank You!
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bkenobi

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 11:59:03 AM »

My recommendation would be to replace the switches with Smarthome X10 toggle dimmer switches.

http://www.smarthome.com/X10WS467D/Smarthome-X10-Toggle-Dimmer-Switch-White/p.aspx

There's also a relay based model for fans or CFL fixtures and come in ivory if that's necessary.  If you want a better version, you can get the ToggleLinc, but that costs $45.99 instead of $19.99.

I would recommend plugging the lamp into a lamp/appliance module.  Then, wire the switch up with power only (not controlling anything directly).  Set the HU code to the lamp/appliance module.  DONE!

I have this setup for my entry lights and it works very well!

dave w

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 12:04:52 PM »

Well, if you have "dabbled" with X10 in the past, then you aren't a complete noob.
As far as the bedroom switches, contractors don't install switches that do nothing. It is likely that the wall switch controls one outlet (perhaps both) in one of the duplex outlets in the room. Since the house is a rental you probably don't want to replace wall switches with X10 switches. Besides, it is a bad idea to use a X10 dimming wall switch to control an outlet. So:
http://www.x10.com/home_automation/remote_light_switch.html?TWENTY11#
http://www.x10.com/promotions/am466_cat_hm.html?TWENTY11#
http://www.x10.com/promotions/lm465_cat_hm.html?TWENTY11
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G_Sup

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 04:50:23 PM »

Thanks for the responses guys!  bkenobi's idea is kind of more what I had in mind since I don't want to have the controller (Slimline with 3 different controllers) as suggested by Dave since I would just be controlling 1 lamp in each separate room.  Would this work as well?  http://www.x10.com/promotions/ws12a_cat_hm.html?NCAT
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Brian H

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 06:10:58 PM »

No the WS12A only is a responder and does not send X10 commands back on the power lines.
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Brian H

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 06:55:59 PM »

There are a few things to remember with the Smarthome X10WS467D
It requires a Neutral Power Connection.
Smarthome chose to use the % Preset Dim command that X10 Lamp Modules ignore.
The X10WS467D should work with their X10LM465 Lamp Module. Including dimming.

The X10WS467D {dimmer} and X10WS467 {relay} from the factory have no X10 address in them
An X10 controller capable of sending the addressee to it to program it is needed.

Signal capture from a X10WS467D
Push Toggle Up and Release:
R: A8 - 6:23:46 PM 2/21/2012
R: AOn - 6:23:47 PM 2/21/2012
Push Toggle Down and Release:
R: A8 - 6:23:49 PM 2/21/2012
R: AOff - 6:23:49 PM 2/21/2012
Hold Toggle Up from Off to Brighten:
R: A8 - 6:23:59 PM 2/21/2012
R: 65% Preset Dim 6:23:59 PM 2/21/2012
R: A8 - 6:24:05 PM 2/21/2012
R: 94% Preset Dim 6:24:06 PM 2/21/2012
Hold Toggle Up to Brighten to 100%
R: A8 - 6:24:13 PM 2/21/2012
R: AOn - 6:24:13 PM 2/21/2012

Dimming to 0% sends an Off. Brightening to 100% sends an On.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 07:06:30 PM by Brian H »
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Noam

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 08:06:05 PM »

Chances are, the switches control an outlet in the room. That was common practice before overhead fixtures were standard (and still is done in some NEW construction).
Since it seems that all you want is to be able to control the light in the room from the switch - just plug a lamp into the outlet that is controlled by the switch, and use the switch. No X10 required.
If you DO want to use the Stick-A-Switches in each room, but don't want to mar the walls, then you might try using something like 3M's "Command" adhesive strips. They are removable, and don't leave marks.
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G_Sup

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 10:59:41 PM »

Tried every outlet, they are all dead to the switch.  I tried that before posting... trust me. ;D  BTW, Brian, I am sorry but what you said is waaaaaaaaay over my head.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:09:16 AM by G_Sup »
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Brian H

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 06:15:43 AM »

Basically. If you went with one of the Smarthome X10WS467D dimmer switches that can also send commands to other X10 modules. The X10 Brand LM465 Lamp Modules would not dim or brighten but would go On and Off.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 06:35:23 AM by Brian H »
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G_Sup

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 07:32:26 AM »

Thanks!  So... before I drop the money on an order please let me try to clarify all of your input.  First off, there is no other "Stick-A-Switches"  available other than this?: http://www.x10.com/promotions/ss13a_cat_hm.html?NCAT

If I take what bkenobi suggested ( http://www.smarthome.com/X10WS467D/Smarthome-X10-Toggle-Dimmer-Switch-White/p.aspx ) in conjunction with the X10 lamp module ( http://www.smarthome.com/X10WS467D/Smarthome-X10-Toggle-Dimmer-Switch-White/p.aspx ) I should be good to go, however I won't have dimming capabilities. 

My last question is:  Is there a X10 switch that is more like a decorative switch available that does the same functions as the one bkenobi mentioned?  Something that looks more like this?  http://www.x10.com/promotions/ws12a_cat_hm.html?NCAT

Thanks for all of your help guys... I would be lost without you! >!
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Brian H

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 08:02:53 AM »

The SS13A Stick-A-Switch uses a RF signal. It would need a transceiver like a TM751 or RR501 to send the signals back on the power lines.

The Smarthome X10WS12A is a decorator style dimming switch.
http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=X10WS12A

The Smarthome X10WS13A is the non dimming decorator switch.
http://www.smarthome.com/_/ProductResults.aspx?Ntt=X10WS13A

If you use the Smarthome X10LM465 plug in lamp module it will go On Off Dim and Brighten with the Smarthome versions.
http://www.smarthome.com/X10LM465/Smarthome-X10-Plug-In-Lamp-Dimmer-Module/p.aspx
If you use the real X10 LM465 it will go On and Off but no Dim or Brighten with the Smarthome branded devices.

The confusion is Smarthomes brand devices. They chose to use very similar part numbers to X10s.  ???
Their modules also come unprogrammed and have to have an X10 power line signal sent to them to add the X10 Address.
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Noam

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 10:25:13 AM »

Tried every outlet, they are all dead to the switch.  I tried that before posting... trust me. ;D 

Well, it is possible that a previous owner (or tenant, if it is a rental) bypassed the switch to make the outlet always on.
You can turn off the breaker to the room (make sure ALL of the outlets are dead - they might be on separate breakers), and then open up the switch box. Trace the wires to see where they go. If the switch was jumped (or removed), you can probably put it back in-line with the outlet, and then you'll have local control of a lamp.
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G_Sup

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2012, 04:15:14 PM »

Sounds good, but how do I trace the wires... they are in the wall.
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Noam

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2012, 09:34:48 PM »

I suggest you get a "non-contact" voltage tester.
It can detect voltage in a wire WITHOUT having to undo any connections or expose any contacts.
After you turn off the power, make sure (using the tester) that the outlets AND the switch are dead (you might check if the switch has power BEFORE you shut the power off first).
Then, open up the switch box, and look at how the wiring runs in the box.
If you take a picture or two, we might be able to suggest what to do.
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G_Sup

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Re: A Simple Project (Hopefully)
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 09:18:42 AM »

Well, problem solved at least in one room... I'm assuming that the others will follow suit.  The lazy electrician that did the electrical a few months back when they did a full remodel did the wiring wrong.  Fortunately the wires were there, they just weren't connected correctly and he also forgot to break the tab for the switched outlet which of course made the outlet constant power.  In a way I really wanted to start this big X10 project for this house, but I really don't want to spend the money on something I don't own either.  Thanks for all the input guys.  Also thanks Noam for being persistent on what was already in place!  #:) >!

BTW... here was the breakdown of what the electrician DIDN'T do  B:(     http://www.electrical-online.com/wiring-a-switched-outlet-diagram/
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