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Author Topic: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support  (Read 20678 times)

dhouston

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 05:46:17 AM »

They promised us Developers Group Members...
I bought the developer license early on (when it was $100) but grew tired of their frequent re-engineering that made earlier devices obsolete. I haven't visited the forum in several years, now.
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Brian H

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 06:19:47 AM »

I was also an early $99.99 member.
I feel badly for the $249.00 with modules or $199.00 Documentation only members.
Now they charge you a fee if you want to consult with an Insteon Engineer.  ???
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toasterking

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 12:33:31 PM »

I just found out about this "strategic decision" whilst chatting with a salesperson at Smarthome about the new FanLinc, who said:
Quote
We are slowly phasing out x10 compatibility in our devices though so any future revisions of this product will probably have no x10 support at all.

When I asked why Smarthome would want to eliminate one of Insteon's flagship features (X10 compatibility), I was told:
Quote
Because x10 has announced that they are no longer manufacturing or developing products.

He could not give me a link to any official announcement, and I expect that the news that was revealed within their department or the way it was interpreted was an oversimplified version of the actual initial communication from X10.  I sent him the link to this article, and as expected, he had not seen it before:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26297.0

Personally, I think the X10 PLC protocol has a lot of life left in it.  Yes, one must take precautions by installing filters and a repeater/phase coupler, and be prepared to tinker periodically.  But Insteon also requires this (albeit to a lesser degree), and so do other solutions.  Because X10 PLC is now an open standard and has been around so long, it has the best vendor support, best pricing, and largest variety of devices available.  Since the protocol is simple and open, it's easy for people without a lot of money or experience to implement in their own designs.  In my house, my X10 devices meet my expectations and work very well and I rarely have to troubleshoot.  Despite the protocol's vintage, I don't see why I would switch to anything else.  (I do understand, however, why the tinkering required might scare away newcomers.)  I understand why it is difficult for X10, the company, to base their business on a system that they are no longer in complete control of, but it is still working for many other vendors.  Leviton seems to still be going strong with their implementation of X10 in DHC and appears to be designing their own devices now (DHC Green Line) rather than just rebranding X10's products.  Smarthome appeared to be capitalizing on the opportunity to fill the void X10 left when one of its factories closed last year by offering X10-only modules again, but it looks like those have all been recently pulled from the web site.

I've been adding some Insteon modules over time and appreciate how well Insteon and X10 devices have gotten along together, but the overwhelming majority of my devices are X10.  Dropping X10 support is not the way to get me to jump on board with Insteon.  One of the main reasons I invested in Insteon was to have the best of both worlds: the reliability and added features of Smarthome's devices and its next-generation protocol along with the openness and extensibility of X10.  Now that this bond has been severed, the only way to make new Insteon devices work with X10 devices in the future is through a computer (or specialized standalone controller, if we ever see one).  The lack of X10 support will just cause me to buy less Insteon devices and to seriously evaluate the scenarios under which I am using them now.  In those situations where I am using both Insteon and X10 features of a single device, I can expect that functionality to be gone forever if the device ever breaks and needs to be replaced.

Just my position on the matter.  I'm curious how many agree with me.
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dhouston

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 01:08:07 PM »

I also thought the split personality Insteon/X10 devices were ideal, allowing one to mix/match as needed/desired. I'm sure the X10 capability did not add much cost so question why they would abandon this feature. I would think there is an opportunity should X10, indeed, be going away.

Also, if my health holds (a very big if), there will soon be a reasonably priced microcontroller based system that can interface with and translate between various HA protocols, both existing and future ones. See...
I expect the first production PCBs to go to the fabricator this week.
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toasterking

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 01:21:05 PM »

Also, if my health holds (a very big if), there will soon be a reasonably priced microcontroller based system that can interface with and translate between various HA protocols, both existing and future ones.

I can't wait to see it, Dave!

I hope your health does hold and you are doing better soon, though not just for that reason.  :)
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dhouston

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 02:11:50 PM »

One more drawback to Smarthome dropping X10 support is that their X10 capable devices were apparently immune to the Duke Energy Smart Meter problems. A few people who were seeing the problem tried Smarthome made modules on the suspect addresses and saw no problems with those modules.
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dave w

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 03:15:49 PM »

Well, I guess the next development project should be a X10 to Insteon protocol translator. Maybe Jeff's next generation XTBIIR will be bi-lingual(?)  -:)
I bet timing would be a nightmare, however. Can't imagine how dimming would be handled.....well it seemed like a good idea for a moment.
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dhouston

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 04:11:54 PM »

Well, I guess the next development project should be a X10 to Insteon protocol translator.

See reply #18 above. That's exactly what the ZarduinoTM stack running roZettaTM will do (plus much, much more). I'm not sure what timing issue you think is problematic. 
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JeffVolp

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 04:35:32 PM »

Maybe Jeff's next generation XTBIIR will be bi-lingual(?)  -:)

Sorry, but I have no intent to support the Insteon protocol.  In fact, I was working on a prototype for a noise eliminator that would treat Insteon signals just like any other noise, and drive them to null at the panel.

Jeff
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Brian H

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Re: New Insteon Modules maybe dropping X10 Support
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 07:02:33 PM »

At one time Smartlabs was working on a X10 to Insteon and Insteon to X10 translator.
It was for the older 2414U/S and 2814U PLCs that used their SALadIDE language. It could assembled and downloaded into the PLC.
It never went past early Beta as suspected. X10 Dim and Bright where not handled correctly and we got the code given to us.
 
Since the 2414U is in the clearance price right now I suspect its days are limited and it can't handle Extended Insteon messaging. The new I2CS or I2 protocols will not work with it anyway.

Simplehomenet makes a X10 to Insteon bridge that also acts like an all house code transceiver.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 07:04:56 PM by Brian H »
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