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Author Topic: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on  (Read 15615 times)

trashisfree

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Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« on: July 05, 2012, 03:22:45 PM »

Yes I can do the SPDT or DPDT 120V coil relay, but it just isn't as elegant or use macros which rely on a computer that isn't always on.

I would rather hack the am466 so that when it gets an on signal it turns off, an off signal it turns on.
Is there any way this can be done?

I want to control a th2807 on its own am466 on a separate thermostat from my furnace's thermostat with the same ms16a that controls my main area household lighting.

I do not have air conditioning, cooling is not a concern.

If I am home I want the th2807 off, if I am gone an analog thermostat controls the th2807 so it only turns on the th2807 below a certain temperature. No point in heating the furnace thermostat
if the room temperature doesn't need to be raised to trick the thermostat.
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Noam

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 03:31:36 PM »

I've never opened mine up, but are there two coils in the relay (one that turns it on, and the other that turns it off)?
If so, could you reverse the wires to them to switch the "on" and "off"?
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 04:01:04 PM »

Basically No you can't.
The AM466 uses a alternate action switch. Activated by a coil rotating a ratchet mechanism.
Since it does not have a memory to remember if it is Off or On. It uses a sensing circuit to determine if it is On or Off. That way if it is Off and you send an Off it didn't pulse On in error.

There was a modification where you removed the sensing circuit and it would pulse twice. Giving you a short On or Off depending on its state before the modification. I believe the new CFL friendly ones pulse three times and end up in the opposite state as it was last in.

The UM506 Universal Module has two coils in it but is not for 120 volt controls.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 04:23:12 PM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 04:03:38 PM »

I will try an Insteon ApplianceLinc as I know it can be linked in a scene when sent an On would turn Off, but that may only be Insteon. The added X10 address may not work that way.
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trashisfree

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 05:30:13 PM »

What about modifying an ms16a so that it puts out the opposite signal? Off for on, on for off?
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 07:18:03 PM »

I have never see anything like that for inverting a MS16As On and Off commands.

The only thing I have seen that can take a contact closure and send an Off. Is an Insteon I/OLinc where the sensor On trigger can be set to send an X10 Off. For the optional X10 address that can be programmed into it.
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trashisfree

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 08:43:25 PM »

Rigging together an ac relay, xpfm module, th2807, thermostat. I don't see a better option. What a miserably way to get a th2807 to do its job.

Thank you Brian for your help.
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trashisfree

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 04:09:36 PM »

I have found a much better way to do this. The th2807 is worthless. Instead use a relay to switch back and forth between 2 separate analog thermostats. The thermostats don't waste the 15-20 watts of the th2807 and give you better temperature control.  :)%

While it is not a huge power savings, I am trying to stop every wasted watt.
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 04:38:47 PM »

Great way to go and I would imagine each thermostat will give you a more exact setting. Over a small heater that makes the thermostat think it is warmer than it is.   >!
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Knightrider

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2012, 05:51:42 PM »

I'm really surprised that Dave W hasn't chimed in on this yet.  He came to the same conclusion many many years ago and published a how-to in a HA publication.  Dave......?
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dhouston

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 07:12:19 PM »

While the OP is likely no longer interested, it's usually easy to add contacts to most relays, making a SPST into SPDT - then changing where connections are made gives you the reverse operation desired. I need to add that I haven't looked at this particular relay to judge whether it can be so modified. You might need to steal contacts from an identical relay.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 06:45:32 AM by dhouston »
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trashisfree

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 12:33:23 AM »

It is also instant heat. No coming home into a cold house and while the motion sensor turns off the th2807, the thermostat still needs time to cool to ambient room temperature.
May use the th2807 for a small heater for a chicken coup or something, but its absolutely worthless for heat control compared to 2 thermostats.
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dave w

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 08:15:54 AM »

I'm really surprised that Dave W hasn't chimed in on this yet.  He came to the same conclusion many many years ago and published a how-to in a HA publication.  Dave......?
Sorry Knight, I just woke up.

Yes I have a pdf copy of the May 1999 Popular Home Automation article and can email if "trashisfree" PMs me with an address. Also, I seem to remember Tuicemen may hay put it on his web site.
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 08:57:32 AM »

Dave Houston; The Appliance Modules output is controlled by a ratchet switch. The MCR100-B pulses one time to advance the ratchet. It does not stay on to hold a relay coil activated.
If it does not detect the On Off change. It will pulse one or two more times depending on CFL friendly or older and then give up.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 09:08:40 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: Modify an am466 so on is off, off is on
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 09:12:54 AM »

dave w, Is this the one on thisautomatedhouse.com?
http://www.thisautomatedhouse.com/Thermostat1.html
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