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Author Topic: Wide Angle or regular?  (Read 9551 times)

Gizmo

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Wide Angle or regular?
« on: July 17, 2012, 11:35:34 PM »

I ordered 2 xx42a Wideeye cameras. On the box is printed xx36a with an xx42a sticker. The manual is for the xx36a. How do I know for sure which cameras I received? What are the viewing angle for both?

Thanks.
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Brian H

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 06:00:28 AM »

This thread may give you some information. Others have questioned the label discrepancies.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26742.0
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X10 Repair Depot

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 07:26:35 AM »

I ordered 2 xx42a Wideeye cameras. On the box is printed xx36a with an xx42a sticker. The manual is for the xx36a. How do I know for sure which cameras I received? What are the viewing angle for both?

Thanks.

We change the lens on some cameras at our fulfillment center prior to shipping. When this is done, we place a new label on the product's box. You can be assured that you did receive a XX42A (the wide angle camera). The manuals and the model of the camera body (the XC38A in your case) are always the same for both the normal and wide angle versions of the camera. 
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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 10:12:59 AM »

Just bought the XX42A which is advertised as having a horizontal viewing angle of 68 degrees as opposed to the XX36A which has a horizontal viewing angle of 48 degrees.  After aiming the XX42A across the street the view appeared to be a bit narrow so I identified the left and right end points in the shot and then used a simple protractor technique to measure that field of view.  It turns out to be about 50 degrees which is significantly less than the advertised 68 degrees.

Called X10 tech support and their reply was: the XX42A has a "flat" lens and the XX36A has a "domed" lens. 

I find this interesting because having been around photography most of my life, the wide angle lenses tend to show more glass, in fact a "fish eye" lens often has a slight dome to it.

Could the X10 people possibly have this backwards?
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X10 Repair Depot

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 11:47:08 AM »


Called X10 tech support and their reply was: the XX42A has a "flat" lens and the XX36A has a "domed" lens.  

I find this interesting because having been around photography most of my life, the wide angle lenses tend to show more glass, in fact a "fish eye" lens often has a slight dome to it.

Could the X10 people possibly have this backwards?

I know it sounds wrong, but the normal lens (XX36A) is clearly curved and the wide eye lens (XX42A) is almost flat.
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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 12:13:21 PM »

Took two photos of the same scene from the same vantage point: one with the X10 XX42A camera and one with the iPhone 4S camera.  Not sure how to attach those photos or I would have done so.  Suffice it to say that the photo taken with X10 XX42A has a narrower field of view than photo taken with iPhone 4S. And EXIF data extracted from iPhone 4S photo indicates field of view is 54.4 degrees (see below) which means field of view in X10 XX42A photo is something LESS THAN 54.4 degrees.

ExifTool Version Number         : 9.20
File Name                       : img_0844.jpg
Directory                       : .
File Size                       : 3.2 MB
File Modification Date/Time     : 2013:02:21 11:30:38-05:00
File Access Date/Time           : 2013:02:21 11:50:18-05:00
File Creation Date/Time         : 2013:02:21 11:50:18-05:00
File Permissions                : rw-rw-rw-
File Type                       : JPEG
MIME Type                       : image/jpeg
Exif Byte Order                 : Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
Make                            : Apple
Camera Model Name               : iPhone 4S
Orientation                     : Horizontal (normal)
X Resolution                    : 72
Y Resolution                    : 72
Resolution Unit                 : inches
Software                        : 6.0
Modify Date                     : 2013:02:21 11:30:37
Y Cb Cr Positioning             : Centered
Exposure Time                   : 1/986
F Number                        : 2.4
Exposure Program                : Program AE
ISO                             : 50
Exif Version                    : 0221
Date/Time Original              : 2013:02:21 11:30:37
Create Date                     : 2013:02:21 11:30:37
Components Configuration        : Y, Cb, Cr, -
Shutter Speed Value             : 1/986
Aperture Value                  : 2.4
Brightness Value                : 8.36091954
Metering Mode                   : Multi-segment
Flash                           : Off, Did not fire
Focal Length                    : 4.3 mm
Subject Area                    : 1631 1223 881 881
Flashpix Version                : 0100
Color Space                     : sRGB
Exif Image Width                : 3264
Exif Image Height               : 2448
Sensing Method                  : One-chip color area
Exposure Mode                   : Auto
White Balance                   : Auto
Focal Length In 35mm Format     : 35 mm
Scene Capture Type              : Standard
Compression                     : JPEG (old-style)
Thumbnail Offset                : 682
Thumbnail Length                : 8962
Image Width                     : 3264
Image Height                    : 2448
Encoding Process                : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample                 : 8
Color Components                : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling            : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
Aperture                        : 2.4
Image Size                      : 3264x2448
Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 8.2
Shutter Speed                   : 1/986
Thumbnail Image                 : (Binary data 8962 bytes, use -b option to extr
act)
Circle Of Confusion             : 0.004 mm
Field Of View                   : 54.4 deg
Focal Length                    : 4.3 mm (35 mm equivalent: 35.0 mm)
Hyperfocal Distance             : 2.08 m
Light Value                     : 13.5
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X10 Repair Depot

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 01:11:09 PM »

Took two photos of the same scene from the same vantage point: one with the X10 XX42A camera and one with the iPhone 4S camera.  Not sure how to attach those photos or I would have done so.  Suffice it to say that the photo taken with X10 XX42A has a narrower field of view than photo taken with iPhone 4S. And EXIF data extracted from iPhone 4S photo indicates field of view is 54.4 degrees (see below) which means field of view in X10 XX42A photo is something LESS THAN 54.4 degrees.



 I would expect a cell phone held in the landscape direction to have a much wider field of view than a camera, because the aspect ratio of the XX42A and a cell phone are significantly different.

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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 01:25:36 PM »

The aspect ratios are actually the same. The iPhone photo (3264X2448) has an aspect ratio of 1.33 and the X10 XX42A photo (640x480) has an aspect ratio of 1.33.
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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 01:30:34 PM »

Field of view is essentially the angle between the 2 equal sides of an isosceles triangle.  I will get the necessary measurements for these photos and do a little geometry to see what that angle computes to.
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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 08:17:23 AM »

Here are the measurements (rounded to the nearest foot).

Distance from camera to house across the street is 110 feet - same for both cameras.
(a) Width of horizontal view with iPhone 4S is 115 feet.
(b) Width of horizontal view with X10 XX42A camera is 85 feet.

Put on your geometry hat now and envision 2 isosceles triangles:
(a) height of 110 and base of 115
(b) height of 110 and base of 85

Using standard geometric tools, compute the angle at the "top" of this triangle which represents the field of view:
for triangle (a) the angle is 55 degrees (this is consistent with the iPhone photo EXIF data)
for triangle (b) the angle is 42 degrees (this is significantly less than the X10 XX42A advertised number of 68 degrees)

I know this was a lot of talk about something most of you don't care about but I bought the XX42A "wide-eye" specifically so I could see all of my street, driveway and front sidewalk in one frame. I knew that a camera with a 68 degree horizontal view would definitely do that. And when the XX42A didn't, I knew it was because the camera was NOT producing an image with that view size and though I should explain it with these basic geometric principles.

Bottom line is: BUYER BEWARE, you may not get what you think you are getting with the XX42A.  Mine will be going back because it does not provide the angle of view that it advertises.
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dave w

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 09:27:01 AM »

this is significantly less than the X10 XX42A advertised number of 68 degrees

watsac
I can not find where this is stated(?). Everything I see states the "standard view" (XX36A) camera is 60 degrees and the "wide angle" is 90 degree. Regardless, I don't think you can apply the logic you are using. Isn't "viewing angle" dependant upon the distance of the lens from the optical pickup element? In other words: stated viewing angle is camera specific, and does not mean a whole lot if comparing to different cameras(?). $0.02
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 12:06:46 PM by dave w »
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richy2

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 11:40:27 AM »

i'M CURIOUS... i look at the wording and it says

X10 AirSight Outdoor Wireless IP Camera Specifications
Nightvision: automatic, down to 0.5 lux, up to 25 meters
 
Viewing Angle:  90 degrees (Diag.)

Weatherproof:  (14 F ~ 140 F) waterproof
Motion Activation: IR motion detection
Secure Encryption: WEP, WPA, WPA2
Expandable: up to nine IP cameras
Browser: IE6.0/7.0/8.0/Firefox/Safari/Google chrome or other standard browsers 

Does Diag make a difference?
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watsac

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 01:38:29 PM »

Field of view is simply the number of degrees that can be "seen" by the camera.  It does depend on the focal length of the camera. A shorter focal length will provide a wider field of view.  The XX36A is shown as having a focal length of 6mm and the XX42A having 3.6mm.

Check this X10 wiki link for their AirSight cameras: http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/AirSight_Comparison_Chart

Many people are confused by the 90 degree DIAGONAL viewing angle.  This is a worthless statistic but they list it because it's impressive. And of course you will get a wider angle of view going from corner to corner (i.e. diagonally).  It's very much like how TV screen sizes are advertised (diagonally).

The more useful statistic is the HORIZONTAL viewing angle.  This what we see when you look at the image from side to side, not corner to corner.  The chart states 48 degrees for the XX36A and 68 degrees for the XX42A.

It did not measure out to be anywhere near 68 degrees with the camera they sent me which was supposedly an XX42A.
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stoneyc

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Re: Wide Angle or regular?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2013, 08:33:29 PM »

Viewing Angle:  90 degrees (Diag.)   these are the specs for the wide eye x10 camera which means up and down or corner to corner true wide eye cameras are horz. there trying to impress peopledont belive them have them change the lense to side to side we should all sue them
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