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Author Topic: MS18A issues  (Read 7240 times)

b0bab0ey

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MS18A issues
« on: August 16, 2012, 01:33:22 PM »

I bought 4 of the MS18A Motion Detectors. I'm using them with the SC1200 Security System. All from x10.com. The Motion Detectors are all 10-20 feet away from the SC1200 Security System.

I'm having nothing but problems with the MS18A. They will randomly go off, even though I cannot find the source of any movement. I've tried moving it all around and have it set to Position 2 so it won't be as sensitive. I also received a "PROBLEM" message with one and a "TAMPER" message with another, even though I never removed the cover before I got that message. I've checked the batteries and the batteries are all fine. I had to completely remove and then re-add the Motion Detectors to the Security System to get these messages to go away.

Anyone else having similar problems? Is there some trick to using the MS18A Motion Detectors that I am missing? Because right now I am seriously regretting buying this stuff.
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 03:54:14 PM »

Well the Tamper Switch is on the bottom of the unit. One of the battery cover tabs {left side} pushes it down.
If you gently flex the battery cover when it is closed. Can you trigger the tamper message? If you can the unit may have a problem. With the Tamper Switch or the battery covers bottom tab that pushes it.
If you are not in an Armed State. Keying in your PIN number may clear the Tamper message.

Problem is the motion sensor has not checked in with in four hours.
Are they in other rooms where there are walls and obstructions between the SC1200 and the sensors? Even though there maybe 10-20 feet between them.
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dhouston

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 05:54:15 PM »

I'm not familiar with the SC1200 and associated detectors. I was familiar with the older door/window switches and motion detectors. IIRC, they sent an "all's well" message about once per hour. If the new ones operate more or less the same and are at marginal distances, adding passive radiators will likely improve things. I saw a big increase in signal strength when I added them to the older devices.
Also, I'm awaiting a key component that has a 4-5 week lead time. Once I receive it, I'll test an RF receiver design that is pin compatible with the narrow-band super-het receiver used in the SC1200, CM15A and newer TM751/TM751A. Also, I'm about to release a galvanically isolated 50-ohm bulkhead coax connector that can be used to add an external antenna to the RR501 and those TM751s with the super-het receiver (it protrudes 3/4" which is too far for the TM751 with super-regen receivers). If it will fit within the SC1200 case without touching anything, it might also improve the RF range of the security system significantly.  It seems poor range of security sensors is a frequent complaint.  
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 06:07:41 PM by dhouston »
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 12:17:25 PM »

I bought 14 MS18A Motion Detectors to control lighting because the MS10A is discountinued. The problem is too much delay or low sensitvity to turn on the lights. Some time the light turn on but I need to walk around. I have many MS10A installed without this problem. When I press and hold the TEST button for about a second. The LED flashes twice and the motion detecte any movement. Maybe, the problem is on normal operation. Do you have suggestion ?
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 12:41:33 PM »

In the Installing the Motion Detector section of the MS18A users guide.

On the back of the MS18A is a switch labeled 1-2. It sets how the MS18A detects motion. A 1 is one motion detection to trigger. A 2 need two detected motions for a trigger. You may want to try the difference between switch set to 1 and switch set to 2.

The MS18A and MS10A are Security Motion Sensors and don't send a normal X10 On and Off.
What are you using to process the security message and convert it to a standard X10 command?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 01:06:28 PM by Brian H »
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2012, 01:29:21 PM »

Hi Brain, I know your are the expert. Thank for your reply but the switch is on position 1 and this is same function of MS10A. In install back to back, the MS18A and MS10A on AHP with two Macros. The MS10A detected instantly where the MS18A take a time when has detected a motion. This is very bad when the production decide to changed. Where is different in test mode and normal mode about the sensitivity. I would connected a sensor on LED feed at this time but the normal operation come back after 2 minutes.
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 03:41:34 PM »

Thank you for the added information.
I just wanted to verify where the switch was set.

Since almost all of us here are end users and volunteers.
We don't have any information on X10 devices we have not figured out ourselves. So the differences between a MS10A and a MS18A may not be known.

There is a schematic of the MS18A on the FCC Database web site. Nothing on the older MS10A, except the RF frequency it uses. So I can't compare them for differences.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 04:00:02 PM by Brian H »
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2012, 05:11:51 PM »

I do not know the FCC Database web site but if the schematic of the MS18A is available, I would like for my comprehension. Do you have a link to this site ? I found many site about modification of some devices I used before but nothing for MS18A.
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 06:47:11 PM »

The ID is on the back of the MS18A.
Note it used the Radio Shack {OEM for Radio Shack by X10}  49-1003's data for the MS18A
http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/

Grantee: B4S
Product Code: -MS17A

In the Details Tab. There are schematics, internal and external photos, test results, parts list.

You can find many of the X10 modules {if they have a transmitter in them} on the FCC site. If you have the FCC ID from the label.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 06:49:56 PM by Brian H »
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 07:42:59 PM »

You are the best. This is exactly I need. I'm understand, this site is for frequency broadcast reglementation.  Now it will be easier to follow the signal with the scope. I want to see which components make delay impact. If I find a solution. I will share in this forum. Thank very much. >!
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 10:32:14 AM »

The delay between detected and resets is ok, but the sensor wait up to 15 seconds before to trig again. This is a security issue. Some time, I can cross the room without detection and wall in dark. I try more of 6 brand new units and all have a same problem. Maybe, the delay is inside the EM78P15E/S microprocessor program. I can't change that. The best solution is to sell my 14 units AS-IS on eBay.
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 03:00:24 PM »

All the X10 motion sensors have a built in delay between detections. For battery conservation.
Some maybe longer than others but all have a delay.
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marcbaillairge

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 08:13:08 AM »

Maybe, that's why ms10a using 4 batteries and ms18a with only 2. the delay on ms10a is very short around 3 or 4 seconds. Thank you Brian for your explanation. But the ms10a are discontinued. I bought 14 x ms10a and I received ms18a without comment.
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dhouston

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 08:39:25 AM »

I want to see which components make delay impact.
Try a smaller capacitor for C33.
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Brian H

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Re: MS18A issues
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 10:44:00 AM »

Yes it does look like the MS10A is discontinued. Which is reversed from a time back. When the MS18A was out of stock and the MS10A was substituted.  ::)
A web search did find a few on various sites.

One vendor even has the real old SP554A in white still left.
I have no idea how they work as I have never seen or used one.
http://www.thex10shop.com/product/x10-sp554a-white-security-system-motion-sensor-with-chime-capability

You may want to try a smaller C33 as pointed out. It is a through hole type and not a surface mount like some of the others are.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:47:02 AM by Brian H »
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