Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

The X10Hub (PiX10Hub) is here! Created by the Community, for the Community.:)% #:)

Author Topic: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller  (Read 4800 times)

Alaskan

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 3
2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« on: September 28, 2012, 04:15:30 AM »

Fun time at my house this week.  After a bulb blew in a table lamp and tripped the breaker, I could control the lamp plugged into a AM-466 from the wired CP-290 controller, but not from the AHP (ver 3.318) or the CM-19A attached to the computer.  Set up a Socket Rocket to code A4 in a different lamp on the other outlet on that wall and it works the same... no control from the computer or remote, or from Active Phone, but they work on the wired controller. I have blown 2 bulbs on that leg of the wiring and both lamps now will only work with the CP-290.

All devices including TM 751 are on the same breaker as the computer and the wired controller.  Strange that lights on other breakers, including kitchen, porch, and bedroom lights, all work just fine from either computer, remote, or phone, as does the light attached to the TM751, which is at the far end of that leg of wiring.

Any clues?   B:(

Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 06:18:51 AM »

All the lights, TM751, CP-290 and the computer are all on the same breaker?

Is this circuit near capacity?
A bulb usually doesn't surge enough to trip a breaker.

Something maybe damaged on the circuit from the surge of the bulb blowing out.

The light on the TM751 still working is most likely. It is directly controlled by the RF command from the CM19A or Remote and not a power line command.

If you have a spare or can swap from a different location. Try a different AM-466 on a problem lights location.
It you have more than one TM751 try swapping them around to see where the problems go or stay the same.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:51:18 AM by Brian H »
Logged

Alaskan

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 3
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2012, 02:49:20 AM »

All the lights, TM751, CP-290 and the computer are all on the same breaker?

Is this circuit near capacity?

Yep. I'm sure that it is.  The good thing is that my grandpa wired the house in flex conduit (in 1937!) so I can pull more wire and add a couple more circuits, which I have been planning to do.  We rewired the house in 3-wire about 15 years ago, but my mother didn't need the extra capacity I do for audio, video, and computer gear (I have a workstation, a "house server", a database & print server, and sometimes a laptop in my office, plus scanner & 2 printers).

Pulling 2 more 20 amp circuits is on my list of things to do this winter.  I've got room for 6 more breakers in the box.

For X10 to work, do all units need to be on the same leg (side) of the box?

Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 06:16:56 AM »

You may know that most homes have split single phase power. Two Hot Lines and a Neutral. 120 between one Line and Neutral and 120 between the other Line and neutral. 220 volts Line to Line.
X10 and other power line signals have a difficult time going to the power transformer on the road and getting back to the other Line.
So almost every X10 setup needs a phase coupler to bridge the phases. Personal favorite here is the JV Engineering XTB-IIR.
http://jvde.us/xtb/XTB-IIR_description.htm

You will find most breaker boxes don't have one Line on a side but alternate vertically each Line so you can get 220 from adjacent breakers.

Most of all the electronic devices you have listed are potential X10 noise makers or signal absorbers {signal sucker}.

You may find some interesting facts on these web sites.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/uncle.htm
http://www.davehouston.net/
Logged

dbean76

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 4
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 11:15:59 PM »

First official post....

I am having this same problem, but my house was built in 1999.  I have several lamp modules and one appliance module, all of them right now are running Christmas lights.  I just got AHP with the new CM15A last week.  I had issues on one PC with it working.  The CM15A was plugged into a GFCI outlet, so I thought that might be the issue.  I moved it to my other PC, and now I can get all but 2 modules working.  The 2 modules happen to be in the same room.

I also have an IR mini controller that I have had for 10 years.  It will work all modules just fine.  In fact, if everything is OFF in AHP, and I turn on one of the modules with the mini wired controller that AHP will not control, when I look at the screen in AHP, it shows that the module is ON.  So AHP is reading the status of the module, but wont control it.

I do not have a phase coupler, but I didn't want to shell out the money, because the mini controller will run all modules.  I am wanting to add some more light switches to get the porch lights on timers, but done want to go there, unless I can get this fixed.  Please help....
Logged

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2483
    • davehouston.org
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 05:52:54 AM »

The output from the IR543 is approximately twice the amplitude of the CM15A output.
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2012, 06:20:56 AM »

Unless you address your marginal signal problems. There could be issues.
In the links in an earlier post. Look at the troubleshooting tips.
Maybe you can find a signal sucker or noise maker and filter it.
Though with no phase coupler. Even a passive one. I would say about half your home is going to have issues.
Logged

dbean76

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 4
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 05:39:31 PM »

Does this mean if I simply get a phase coupler, this problem will be solved?  The one that interests me the most due to cost and simplicity is the Smarthome 2443P Access Point INSTEON Wireless Phase Coupler. I am fairly handy, but the phase couplers that install at the box intimidate me a bit.  Thanks for the replys so far, and I look forward to the solution.

Dbean76
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 07:39:55 PM »

2443P. Pair of Insteon Access Points only couple Insteon signals between the phases and receive Insteon RF command.
They do not process X10 signals at all.

No adding a phase couple will not guarantee your problems will be gone.
If the problem is phase coupling. One may help.
If you have noise and signal suckers. How much one would help would vary.
Logged

dave w

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 136
  • Posts: 5971
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 08:14:38 PM »

Does this mean if I simply get a phase coupler, this problem will be solved? 
No.
Like Brian said, there are no guarentees. I would look at a repeater, not a passive phase coupler. A repeater does couple the X10 signal from one phase to the other AND amplifies the X10 signal on both phases. If you peruse this forum for "phase couplers" and "repeaters" you will get a good picture. The X10 model XPCR is the least expensive. The XTBIIR from JV Digital Engineering is the best.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Logged
"This aftershave makes me look fat"

dbean76

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 4
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 10:31:07 PM »

Ok.  It sounds like the coupler/repeater is a good option.  I am confused about one thing.  It seems that several of you are suggesting that the phase might be an issue.  If e ir mini controller works, does that mean that there is a chance that when they wired this house, the two phases are connected?  If so, that would mean the issue is more of a signal strength or noise issue.  Since dhouston mentioned that the CM15a is weaker than the other, maybe a filter and booster is the right approach.  Sorry for the confusion.  I'm just trying to automate up to 10 or so lights and I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on getting that to work, especially when it worked fine with the mini controller and all I'm trying to do is add ap and phone pro.  Thanks guys!

Dbean76
Logged

Brian H

  • Community Organizer
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Helpful Post Rating: 289
  • Posts: 12690
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 06:10:16 AM »

Connecting the two incoming lines from the street. Would result in a dead short to the power company and there would be no 220 volts for things like a electric stove or dryer.
Logged

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2483
    • davehouston.org
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 06:42:24 AM »

The higher output of the IR543 might be enough to overcome noise and/or signal suckers and, in rare cases, it might even make it to the other phase through the utility company transformer but you really haven't provided enough information and there's no shortcut. You really need to start by mapping your breakers and outlets so you know which phase each is on. Then you need to identify noise sources and signal suckers and add filters as needed. If all of your X10 devices are on one phase you can get by without a coupler.

These pages give you the basics...
and the first contains a link to Jeff Volp's more in depth X10 trouble-shooting page.

In the early days of X10, before the proliferation of electronic devices in the home and before CFLs and other noise makers, X10 had fairly clear sailing in the typical house and a simple, passive phase coupler (a single capacitor) was sufficient. Those days are long gone and it now requires attention to the details to keep an X10 system performing. 
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston

dbean76

  • Newbie
  • Helpful Post Rating: 0
  • Posts: 4
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 09:24:56 AM »

OK.  I will start by mapping out the phases.  Thanks guys.  more to come, probably in a week or so.
Logged

dhouston

  • Advanced Member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Helpful Post Rating: 37
  • Posts: 2483
    • davehouston.org
Re: 2 modules not working with AHP, working with wired controller
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2012, 10:29:34 AM »

I should also have noted that, in the early days, all X10 PLC transmitters output 10Vpp while those models dating from the CM11A onward have only output about 5Vpp so, in addition to all the new signal-suckers and noisemakers, we're now frequently dealing with lower initial signal levels.
Logged
This message was composed entirely from recycled letters of the alphabet using only renewable, caffeinated energy sources.
No trees, wabbits, chimps or whales died in the process.
https://www.laser.com/dhouston
 

X10.com | About X10 | X10 Security Systems | Cameras| Package Deals
© Copyright 2014-2016 X10.com All rights reserved.