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Author Topic: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"  (Read 10846 times)

Brian H

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 12:24:39 PM »

Personally. I think Noam's idea of getting the transceivers out of the picture and enhancing the CM15As reception. Would be a better way to go.
Thanks for your insight on such things Dave.
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 12:26:50 PM »


Brian H. -- To answer your questions:

>>What is the silk screened part number on the receiver board?<<

"H1124SA
[symbol]94V0
E340835
JDM-01D
1188"

>>Is the IC on the receiver board a RX3310?<<

"HiMARK
RX3310A-LF
1EJ2403"
It has 18 pins and (if I'm counting correctly -- looking from the TOP and counting CCW from the corner dimple) pin 9 is apparently the only open pin.

The **other** RF daughter board (transmitter? -- connected to a wire running around the inside of the case), from which I **also** removed +V, says "H11157B."  It has a round can "HD/R310M" with an indeterminate number of pins mounted on it.

So I think I understand what you want me to try:  Reconnect +V to the receiver board, connect a 100K resister between pin 9 of the DIP and +V, and see if the activity log improves.  Right? -- jclarkw
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 12:31:57 PM »

The microcontroller is going to ignore anything that does not begin with the X10 STX signal (9ms pulse/4.5ms space) or the similar but shorter start sequence from the camera remote. Then it will only act on valid codes that follow the STX sequence.


Dave -- I hear what you are saying, but then you have to explain why the activity log changed when I disconnected +V from **both** daughter boards. -- jclarkw
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 12:36:52 PM by jclarkw »
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 12:35:54 PM »

Personally. I think Noam's idea of getting the transceivers out of the picture and enhancing the CM15As reception. Would be a better way to go.
Thanks for your insight on such things Dave.


Brian H. -- Please clarify:  Are you now recommending to re-connect +V to the receiver board, **not** disable the receiver, and then set "Transceived House Codes" to "NONE"?

And what about the presumed transmitter board?  Leave +V disconnected or re-connect it? -- jclarkw
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Brian H

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 03:21:11 PM »

Since you are the first user to report this finding. We are kind of on our own.

I would try reconnecting the +5 volts to both the receiver and transmitter boards. Then try the none choice for the transceived house codes.
Remember if both the TM751 and the CM15A receive the signal from the HR12A Palm Pad. Both may show in the Activity Screen.

If that doesn't do what you need.
You can tie pin 9 of the RX3310 chip on the receiver daughter card to +5 volts. I used a 100K 1/8 watt in my preliminary tests and a 10K 1/8 watt in my modification. Where I used a micro miniature toggle switch and a 10K resistor. Tying it to +5 or Gnd through the switch to select RF On and Off.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 03:24:28 PM by Brian H »
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bcwmachine

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 07:02:16 PM »

What I did to sort of unclutter the log was to remove the RX board. Still use the TX function and us V572RF32 for the receive.

Bruce
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 09:36:07 PM »


OK, here's what I've learned so far:

>>I would try reconnecting the +5 volts to both the receiver and transmitter boards. Then try the none choice for the transceived house codes.
Remember if both the TM751 and the CM15A receive the signal from the HR12A Palm Pad. Both may show in the Activity Screen.<<

I did this except that I removed the transmitter daughter board completely -- no use for it and conceivable RF interference -- left the single transceived house code on for the moment, and also unplugged the TM751.  In this configuration I had essentially the same problems as before except that commands executed directly from the CM15A were now listed as "Macro" in the log instead of "Transmit" -- a small improvement.  In particular, although remote RF commands (if the remote was very close to the CM15A, but that's another issue) were executed, they either didn't show up in the log at all or produced bursts of meaningless garbage in the activity log.  Similar results  were obtained with remote (wired) commands.  (Note that this last problem, at least, cannot be avoided by improving RF reception by.CM15A and elimnating the TM751!  The CM15A just is not detecting remotely executed commands correctly.)  In fact either kind of remote command often seemed to permanently lock up the log.

Setting tranceived house codes to "NONE" was no help at all except, of course, that the RF commands were not executed.

Added back the TM751 solved the latter problem, of course, but also produced bursts of garbage and/or lock-ups in the activity log.

>>If that doesn't do what you need.
You can tie pin 9 of the RX3310 chip on the receiver daughter card to +5 volts. I used a 100K 1/8 watt in my preliminary tests and a 10K 1/8 watt in my modification.<<

Electrically disabling the RF receiver in this way appears to be the best configuration for me, as RF reception by the CM15A is blocked, producing no garbage or lock-ups in the log.  But all of the other problems continue, including garbage and lock-ups due to RF commands executed by the TM751.  It's as though the internal (macro and ActiveHome-issued) commands work OK until a few external commands are detected, an then problems begin.  (As discussed in thread, http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=27918.0, I also tried an earlier version of ActiveHome Pro that was advertised to help with this, but his did not solve the most annoying log problems.)

The main problem for me remains that it's difficult to determine what a "program" actually does (especially with dawn/dusk and/or "security" options) without being able to rely on a recorded log during the testing phase... -- jclarkw
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:40:49 PM by jclarkw »
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Brian H

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 09:35:50 AM »

You have one TM751 in use not multiple TM751s?
Do you have any phase couplers between the two split phase power found in almost all homes?
If you have a coupler/repeater. What brand and model?
There are a few that are known to get into firestorm signal power line flooding with a CM15A.
 
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 10:30:32 AM »



Brain H. -- Thanks very much for your patience and ongoing help with this problem.

>>You have one TM751 in use not multiple TM751s?<<

Just one.

>?Do you have any phase couplers between the two split phase power found in almost all homes?
If you have a coupler/repeater. What brand and model?<<

Yes.  It's a Leviton model  HCA02, with which I replaced the original Advanced Control Technologies CR 230 after two of them had failed.  I haven't noticed any signal collisions -- at least everything is working on command.

>>There are a few that are known to get into firestorm signal power line flooding with a CM15A.<<

I also have a "Power Line Signal Analyzer" with which I could verify the existence of the "garbage" command fragments that ActiveHome Pro is reporting (to make sure that they are real and not figments of ActiveHome's buggy imagination).  But this does not give me a convenient way to identify the source of the fragments.  And it doesn't explain why the combination of the CM15A and ActiveHome's log ignore commands that I know are on the power line -- all remote commands, both RF and wired, are being executed even when they are not reported in the log.
 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 11:02:51 AM by jclarkw »
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Brian H

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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 12:24:11 PM »



Brian H. -- The attached is an annotated ActiveHome Activity Log fragment that illustrates the weird behavior I have been describing. -- jclarkw
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jclarkw

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 12:42:37 PM »

X10 wiki may have more details...
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Known_Issues_with_ActiveHome_Pro


Brian -- I'm reading there, "Users have claimed that ACT's coupler/repeaters don't have this problem (though I haven't tried them myself)."

1) Can anyone elaborate on specific models of phase couplers that known to be OK with the CM15A?  I would be happy to try one...

2) I'm not using dim or bright commands at all, the non-logged commands and the logged bogus command-fragment bursts (illustrated in the earlier .doc attachment) are triggered only by commands issued by remotes (not by the CM15A), no bogus commands or line noise is detected by my Power Line Signal Analyzer, and my control systems run along fine indefinitely.  It's only the Activity Log in ActiveHome Pro that is obviously malfunctioning.

So this doesn't really sound like the problem described in the above URL.  It sounds more like a problem with the CM15A's line monitoring module and/or with ActiveHome Pro software.  Nevertheless I will happily try another coupler if somebody will recommend one...

-- jclarkw
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 12:45:19 PM by jclarkw »
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Brian H

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 03:40:27 PM »

I will look at the attached doc file.

1) I know the JV Engineering XTB-IIR is the gold standard coupler repeater. Others with the ACT models should give you model numbers. I have
seen CR134 and CR234 models mentioned.
2) It doesn't sound like the problems some where seeing with bright and dim commands.
Since it only seems to happen with RF commands. Maybe it is the fact that X10 RF devices send two or more commands each time the buttons are pushed and the multiple command are being sent on the power line. The power line monitor maybe seeing the repeated commands and the originals from the TM751 and getting garbaged data.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:56:35 PM by Brian H »
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dhouston

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 04:44:33 PM »

Since it only seems to happen with RF commands. Maybe it is the fact that X10 RF devices send two or more commands each time the buttons are pushed and the multiple command are being sent on the power line. The power line monitor maybe seeing the repeated commands and the originals from the TM751 and getting garbaged data.

I'm afraid I have no patience with the OP's helter-skelter shotgun approach to troubleshooting, but...

Unless the CM15A is defective, or sorely in need of decoupling capacitors, there's no logical explanation for the things that are happening.

Most remotes send 5 or more copies of RF commands. The SH624 can send singles and it's very difficult to send less than 6 with the HR12A. I have never heard of a TM751 having problems with that. They tend to wait 500ms or more before responding to repeats although there was a problem several years ago related to the shortcut noted in the KB for dim commands that would cause TM751s to send infinite PLC dims in response to EMI from the 120kHz on the household wiring affecting the superregenerative receiver.

Short of a defective CM15A (or incompetent X10 programmers - note that I have never used AHP or the Cypress MCU in the CM15A so I cannot speak to this) there is no way the RF transmitter can be involved. Disconnecting it is as likely to cure warts as it is to address the problem.

If both the TM751 and CM15A hear the RF and send PLC, the CM15A should sense any collisions and stop sending. It will then retransmit when the line is clear. Add a coupler/repeater and you could get a cacophony or repeats/collisions, ad infinitum.

The best approach would be to ditch the TM751 and improve the antenna on the CM15A as I and Noam suggested earlier. That, at least, gives a clear starting point for troubleshooting.

One final point - RF interference or a stuck button on a remote could also be a factor.
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Noam

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Re: was "Disable RF signal receiving on CM15A"
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 04:46:05 PM »

Dumb question -
Have you tried another CM15A? Perhaps yours is defective, and no amount of monkeying around with it will correct that.
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