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Author Topic: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)  (Read 4643 times)

yonu

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Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« on: June 10, 2013, 01:39:38 PM »

First let me say I notice alot of folks saying that this is not safe so let me first say Use this mod at your own risk!!!

This started because I needed a dry momentary contact for my gate opener and didn't have a universal module  but had several appliance modules.

So I started searching the internet and found a couple of post saying it could not be done safely so being as I work with electronics and line voltagedaily I figured I would give it a try.

The first thin I did was remove the relay from the board and break off the little tab that was soldered to the board I then soldered a wire to the relay and insulated with several layers of elctrical tape


Next I removed the wire that connected the newtral socket to the nuetral prong sorry I didn't take a picture but on mine it was a brown wire the red wire that i soldered to the relay connects to the nuetral socket in the hole left by the wire.

now at this point you have a semi isolated momentary relay oh and incase you are wondering aparently disconnecting the relay fromt he board make it momentary after probing the live board with a digital and analog vold meters I came to the conculsion that I had to still disable the local sensing in order fully isolate the relay from the line voltage so you will wont to remove the resister shown here


now according to both meters this is a fully isolated momentary relay

Here is the finished module


I will be using this to trigger the wired switch on my gate opener which is a 24vac trigger so I will post updates as soon as I get it mounted in the waterproof enclosure

As I said before use this at your own risk I assume no respnibility for bodily or property damage

Thanks,
yonu
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Brian H

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 02:13:24 PM »

I did the mod on the Home Automation Knowledgebase with a later CFL friendly Appliance Module.
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
From your photos, it looks like yours was a CFL friendly one. As the controller is a surface mount on the solder side of the PCB.
One thing with the one I did. The connections from the SCR was opposite from the older through hole controller model and had to be modified to work. As the mod removed the ratchet switch and used a few components. Like a 12 volt relay, zener diode, capacitor and some resistors.

Glad your worked OK. Some versions of the appliance module. Pulsed the ratchet switch three times trying to determine if it was On or Off. With those. You would have gone On,Off and back On again.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 02:27:12 PM by Brian H »
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dave w

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 02:32:56 PM »

yonu
Upon the "ON" command, does the relay close and open once, or does it close and open more than once?

Thanks
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yonu

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 03:05:56 PM »

hey thanks for the link to your page I wish I would have seen it before I started. The only reason I posted was because I had seen all the posts saying you couldn't do it lol
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Brian H

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 03:16:13 PM »

The momentary mod in the link. Was for the older Appliance Modules and the new CFL friendly ones would need some changes to work.
SCR is wired differently. So you had to correctly find the + and - polarity for the pulse into the zener and capacitor. As it was not the same as the older one shown in the online mod.

Thanks for sharing your mod.
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yonu

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 03:25:20 PM »

dave

when the on command it send it triggers one time however my entire x10 setup is run by girder using a cm11 and it only sends the command once if I understand the actuall x10 hardware correctly it sends the command twice.
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Brian H

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 03:41:51 PM »

The appliance module has a On or Off detector circuit {resistor you removed older ones also have local control sensing}. So if the ratchet switch is On and it receives an ON the ratchet does not get pulsed. If the module does not detect a change in ratchet switch position. The firmware will try again. Some tried one extra time some tried more than one extra time.
So some version's of the appliance module, when modified for dry contact. Would receve an On. Think it was Off and pulse the ratchet more than two times. Resulting in an On Off and back On.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 03:43:22 PM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 03:47:00 PM »

dave w, Now that mine is modified with a 12 volt relay. I don't remember if my CFL friendly ones pulsed two times{on/off} or three times {on/off/on}. With the sensing resistor removed.
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dave w

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 03:47:52 PM »

dave

when the on command it send it triggers one time however my entire x10 setup is run by girder using a cm11 and it only sends the command once if I understand the actuall x10 hardware correctly it sends the command twice.

yonu,

Nimble fingered Brian beat me, but I am posting anyway because I need to know if the relay acuates more than once in your mod.

Thanks, but I was wonder how the AM controller chip handles not seeing the relay change state since the feedback loop is now disconnected. The old AMs would fire the relay two more times when controller chip did not sense an initial change of state. (almost instant  "clickty, clickty, click") The newer CFL friendly AMs used to fire relay one additional time if it did not sense a change of state (or two clicks).  I *think* this was internal programming of the controller chip and not due to X10 transmission protocol.
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Brian H

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 04:36:03 PM »

Did a test.
New CFL friendly AM466. Date Code 09K48.
Unsolder one end of R14. The relay status sensor circuit.
Send commands with a HR12A Palm Pad through an RR501 Tranceiver.
AM466 starting in the Off position.
A test lamp in controlled outlet.
Send an On command.
Lamp goes On and back Off.
Tried test a few times to verify the same results.
Restore R14.
AM466 again functions normally.
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dave w

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Re: Momentary am486 relay (Use at own risk!!)
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 05:47:29 PM »


Send an On command.
Lamp goes On and back Off.
Tried test a few times to verify the same results.
Great! Thanks!! BTW It is great to have a 4071 in the Familyroom again.  ;)
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