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[ciaccia]

Hey guys been a while....I have a chandelier that takes (24) 25watt candelabra light bulbs.  I originally had this on a WS12A dimmer module with a 3 way companion switch and has worked fine for years....but for this Halloween I decided to take all those lamps out and install (24) 3 watt flicker flame lamps in for Halloween.  I noticed when I turned the WS12A off like a hand full of the lamps were still on and dim.  I figured this was because of the dimmer module not having enough wattage so I took one 3 watt flicker out and put back in one of the 25 watt lamps and the light turned off like it was supposed to.  Now I was thinking hey let me change this to a XPS3 switch since there is no dimmer function and it is either on or off it should work.  So I took the 25 watter out put back in the 3 watter and change the switch.....to my surprise same result.    I did go from 600 watts to 72 watts but still above 40 watts for the typical minimum lamp wattage.  Any ideas as to why this is happening and what I can do to rectify this little issue....I may get a 25 watt candelabra and paint it black with high temperature stove paint so you don't see the white light and is virtually invisible but I really what a real fix.  Any help would be appreciated.....Can't wait to here the smart solutions from you guys!!!


Thanks in advance

[Brian H]

The WS12A gets its power through the load. LED bulbs many times glow from the current needed to keep the electronics powered.

The XPS3 is a On/Off type with a alternate action ratchet switch.
So the electronics in the XPS3 knows if the switch is On or Off. There is a small sensing circuit on the output. This small current can sometimes flash or make low power LEDs glow even when Off. Your added a small incandescent bulb. It was enough to lower the sensing current to stop the LEDs from acting up.

[toasterking]

I think that what is causing the glowing when turned off is the leakage current that the X10 module passes through the load in order to detect the light fixture's switch being toggled open/closed so that it can activate the Local Control feature and turn the module on when one does so.  Both the dimmer and appliance modules have this "feature" so they both have this "problem".  LED lights sometimes have the same problem with these modules because they draw such low current.

If you don't mind opening up an X10 module and making a modification that voids your UL seal of approval for safety, there is a modification you can do to disable the Local Control feature, which you don't even need anyway if your fixture doesn't have a pull chain or other on/off switch.  The trick here is that you need to disable the sensing current that the Local Control feature uses.  I was able to do this on a 2010-made PAM01/AM486 appliance module by clipping the lead on resistor R4.  On a 2010-made PLM01 lamp module, it was R14.  I don't know exactly what to modify on a WS12A or XPS3, but look for a resistor connected directly to the screw/wire for the LOAD lead that you would connect to the wire that goes to the HOT/LINE side of the fixture.

If you find a solution, please share the details of it here!

And I wouldn't try painting a light bulb black.  That would make the bulb run much hotter than before and your fixture may not be rated for the heat.  It could damage your chandelier and could be a fire hazard.

Good luck!

[toasterking]

Brian, I was still composing and looking at notes when you replied.  You are correct; the reason it glows with the WS12A is different from the reason it glows with the XPS3.  The modification I described would be relevant to the XPS3 but not the WS12A.

[toasterking]

I will mention also that the appliance modules with the ratcheting bistable relay detect which position the relay contacts are in by sensing voltage on the HOT side of the output (the LOAD lead).  There may still be a small amount of current leakage through this connection to the load, which means that you still may have a (albeit lesser) glowing problem on an XPS3 even after performing the above modification.

@ciaccia, I think I have a better solution for you.  Try an XPDI3 in that wall box.  That would give you dimming capability, it does not have the Local Control feature so there should be no current leakage, and it uses a 3-wire connection so it does not steal power through the load to operate.  If you're using an XPS3, then you already have a neutral conductor in the electrical box, so an XPDI3 should work for you.  I have not tried an XPDI3 for this sort of application, but I think it should work.

[Brian H]

You can't disable the On Off sensing current.
If you do. It will not know if it is On or Off and will pulse like a machine gun a few times before giving up.

[toasterking]

You can't disable the On Off sensing current.
If you do. It will not know if it is On or Off and will pulse like a machine gun a few times before giving up.

Correct.  I was advising that the OP could try disabling the sensing current for Local Control without disabling the sensing current for the relay state, though I don't know the exact modification required for an XPS3.  I have successfully done that on a PAM01 but still had dimly glowing LEDs on an LED rope light from the sensing current for the relay state, though they were dimmer than before the modification.  After disabling the sensing current for Local Control on a PLM01, I was able to get my LED rope light to turn all the way off, but since the OP needs an in-wall module, I think that the XPDI3 would be a better option since it is similar to an in-wall version of the PLM01 but without Local Control, so hopefully without sensing current and no modification needed.  Wow, that's a bunch of repeated words.  I hope that makes sense.

[Brian H]

The X10 Appliance Modules with the new surface mounted controller IC and powers supplies. Where sold as CFL friendly. Didn't have any Local Control Sensor. Just the On/Off one.