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Author Topic: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)  (Read 11104 times)

haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 03:00:55 PM »

Which do you recommend. Are you also familiar with the Smarthome boostlinc
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 04:01:31 PM »

I have purchased a PLC01 repeater. It works well, however I have experienced a condition where the unit goes int a mode whereby it continues to blink and keeps sending out the same command. The only way to reset is to pull out the unit and then replug it in.

What other power line transmitters are in your system? TM751? RR501? PL513? TW523 CM11A? CM15A?
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 04:28:54 PM »

I have a  CM15A
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 05:02:01 PM »

I have a  CM15A

What is the datecode on the round sticker on the back?
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 05:24:42 PM »

05D18
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2016, 05:53:08 PM »

05D18

While the datecodes are not a totally reliable indicator, yours indicates it was built in April 2005. Is there an FCC ID number on the label or does it say "Tested to comply..."?
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2016, 08:36:11 PM »

it says tested to comply.
it has an fcc id b4scm15a
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Brian H

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 08:41:15 PM »

My 08B09 CM15A
Also has both the tested to comply line and the FCC B4SCM15A on its label.
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 09:55:15 PM »

Early CM15As had super-regenerative receivers. This link is about a phenomenon I named "endless dim syndrome".
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.home.automation/endless$20dim$20syndrome
Most of the time it involved TM751s with super-regenerative receivers but I was able to induce it in RR501s as well. I postulated that it was the result of poor programming. That Dan Lanciani programmed replacement PICs for both the TM751 & RR501 that did not exhibit the problem seemed to confirm that.

It may be your CM15A that is at fault. The higher PLC level on the powerline from your repeater is inducing its super-regenerative receiver to transmit  Dim/Bright signals continuously which the repeater repeats (because that's what it does) resulting in an endless loop that can only be interrupted by unplugging the repeater (or the CM15A). The CM15A has no LED to indicate it's transmitting PLC. This may also explain what Jeff Volp's customers are seeing.

We haven't heard much about this since the CM15A came along but that was also about the time ISPs began dropping Usenet and we lost comp.home.automation along with it. That newsgroup had a lot more X10 users than are members here and its loss probably lost us a lot of users to report things like this.

If my WAG (wild ass guess) is right, you can also stop the endless repeats by unplugging the CM11A.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 10:01:08 PM by dhouston »
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2016, 10:43:52 PM »

Thank you. I downloaded the log from my CM15A and see the following:

See line 166. Is this the phenomena you are discussing as I am not using any RF. If so can the RF be disabled by removing the antenna or some other means.


55    1/12/2016 7:13:15 PM    Receive    A On (Kitchen Main LT)
156    1/12/2016 11:09:09 PM    Receive    A10 (Main Light)
157    1/12/2016 11:09:10 PM    Receive    A On (Main Light)
158    1/12/2016 11:24:04 PM    Receive    A10 (Main Light)
159    1/12/2016 11:24:04 PM    Receive    A Off (Main Light)
160    1/13/2016 12:00:32 AM    Macro    A2 (Front Entrance )
161    1/13/2016 12:00:32 AM    Macro    A Off (Front Entrance )
162    1/13/2016 12:23:23 AM    Receive    A4 (Kitchen Main LT)
163    1/13/2016 12:23:23 AM    Receive    A Off (Kitchen Main LT)
164    1/13/2016 1:00:32 AM    Macro    C1 (Outdoor Front)
165    1/13/2016 1:00:32 AM    Macro    C Off (Outdoor Front)
166    1/16/2016 6:08:57 PM    Receive RF    A Unknown
167    1/16/2016 6:08:57 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
168    1/16/2016 6:08:58 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
169    1/16/2016 6:08:58 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
170    1/16/2016 6:08:59 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
171    1/16/2016 6:09:00 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
172    1/16/2016 6:09:00 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
173    1/16/2016 6:09:01 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
174    1/16/2016 6:09:02 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
175    1/16/2016 6:09:02 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
176    1/16/2016 6:09:03 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
177    1/16/2016 6:09:03 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
178    1/16/2016 6:09:04 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
179    1/16/2016 6:09:05 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
180    1/16/2016 6:09:05 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
181    1/16/2016 6:09:06 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
182    1/16/2016 6:09:06 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
183    1/16/2016 6:09:07 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
184    1/16/2016 6:09:08 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
185    1/16/2016 6:09:08 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
186    1/16/2016 6:09:09 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
187    1/16/2016 6:09:09 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
188    1/16/2016 6:09:10 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2016, 11:41:11 PM »

Thank you. I downloaded the log from my CM15A and see the following:

See line 166. Is this the phenomena you are discussing as I am not using any RF. If so can the RF be disabled by removing the antenna or some other means.

166    1/16/2016 6:08:57 PM    Receive RF    A Unknown
167    1/16/2016 6:08:57 PM    Receive    A Bright 10
...
188    1/16/2016 6:09:10 PM    Receive    A Bright 10

While that's a bit different than what we saw years ago, we didn't have a log from either the TM751 or RR501.

It appears the strong 120kHz signal on the powerline is causing the super-regenerative RF receiver in the CM15A to break into oscillation and the CM15A is interpreting it as 'A Bright' which then gets repeated ad infinitum. It does appear to be the same phenomenon and, again, would seem to be related to the same poor programming with the CM15A assuming any continuous RF is a dim or bright without actually examining the actual bits transmitted.

The antenna is not easily removed and removing it may not solve this. Removing the RF receiver should solve it but that means disassembling the CM15A. You can see what it looks like here...
https://www.laser.com/dhouston/ImproveCM15A.html
although I had replaced the antenna with the BNC connector at bottom left. The RF receiver is the one with the white wire from said connector. There are three leads to desolder. You can reinstall it later if desired.

However, first try unplugging the CM15A during a signal storm to see if that does cause it to stop. If not, we're on the wrong track.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 11:56:55 PM by dhouston »
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 07:16:18 AM »

Thanks again. As I indicated I am not using the RF receiver. Can you recommend the circuit change to disable the receiver. I am confident I can make the change. Please note that it is interesting to see in the log that the RF signal timestamp does not indicate that it comes after any repeater transmission. It appears to be completely random
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dhouston

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 07:45:11 AM »

I still want to make sure that the CM15A is the culprit before disabling the RF receiver. I might be on the wrong track. How close are the PLC01 & CM15A? Perhaps, increasing the separation would fix things.

If the CM15A is seeing phantom RF activity (maybe caused by strong 120kHz PLC) it may be transmitting PLC and seeing repeated PLC, all at the same time. It probably cannot handle all of these simultaneous events so the log may not show everything that is occurring. I've no clue to how it prioritizes.

Do you have a PLC event scheduled for the time the signal storm started?

The logged Receive RF    A Unknown is rather mysterious. It should not be reporting any RF that doesn't fit one of X10's RF protocols (standard, security, camera) but I've never used Active Home or Active Home Pro so may be talking through my hat.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 08:14:07 AM by dhouston »
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haroldbr18

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2016, 08:41:20 AM »

as you can see by the log, the storm was not anytime near any transmission. I am getting a smarthome boostlinc today and will replace the PLC 01 units I have. Maybe the problem will go away. Please let me know if you have any other ideas and thank you for your help
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joe s.

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Re: New PLC01 PLC Repeater (2015 review)
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2016, 11:18:48 AM »

Quote
I am getting a smarthome boostlinc today
Hope that unit works better for you than me.  I tried one years ago and it  made virtually no difference to my installation except on one circuit.  I eventually installed a XTB-11R repeater.  Now, THAT puppy works!
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