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Author Topic: Thinking about moving away from X10?  (Read 6606 times)

Tuicemen

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Thinking about moving away from X10?
« on: February 02, 2016, 02:55:45 PM »

I have to admit I also thought about this at one time.
My reason?
To be truthful I don't even remember anymore B:( it certainly wasn't reliability, that has never been a factor here.
With Authinx working at improving all modules reliability shouldn't be a factor to anyone anymore.

So I'm wondering if your thinking about abandoning X10 or all ready have what is/was your reason?
I know there are other devices I'd like in my setup that X10 doesn't offer (maybe that was my reason for thinking about dumping it) ::)
Word is Authinx has some new product ideas in the pipeline though I have no details on what these may be.
Also given the time it is taking the Wi-Fi module to come to market I'm unsure if I'll even see these.

If you already abandoned X10 what would make you take another look?

If you had X10 and returned to using it, Why?
That may be the most helpful to others thinking of jumping ship.

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dhouston

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 04:19:55 PM »

The dirt cheap ESP8266 WiFi module is almost certain to generate inexpensive, WiFi-enabled home automation devices. The lamp holder and appliance module from ITEAD STUDIO are merely (albeit somewhat crude) forerunners of numerous such devices. If Authinx doesn't adapt quickly, they'll likely go the way of the dodo and the CFL.  ;D
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lviper

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 04:25:19 PM »

I haven't jumped ship but I have thought about it. My reason was the crappy wireless range of the CM15a and AHP. Sure AHP worked well but when the original X10 went under and left AHP a problem to reload (but you did great with your work) I started to look but didn't want to spend the money to replace all I've invested. So I ended up with Home Control Assistant and the WGL W800usb. HCA can do everything AHP can do and more with the exception of transmitting from the CM15a wireless. It will use the CM15a for powerline transmission.

With this setup I have been able to keep everything and increase the reliability of wireless 10 fold. So I'm happy to keep my X10 and if I ever wanted to add something else like Insteon I can. It will run along side X10 and with HCA I can use Insteon to trigger an X10 or vise versa.
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Tuicemen

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 05:09:34 PM »

The dirt cheap ESP8266 WiFi module is almost certain to generate inexpensive, WiFi-enabled home automation devices. The lamp holder and appliance module from ITEAD STUDIO are merely (albeit somewhat crude) forerunners of numerous such devices. If Authinx doesn't adapt quickly, they'll likely go the way of the dodo and the CFL.  ;D
I've experimented with a few different Wi-Fi HA products, wemo, MiLight and I don't see individual Wi-Fi devices as the way to go.
I do see the ability to control multi devices with a Wi-Fi enabled hub like the Cm15 mod your working on as a goog thing.
After all you only have 254 IP addresses per router as it uses one.
With TVs, game consoles, PCs, laptops, phones, IP cameras, bathroom scales........ all connecting how fast is the responce time going to be once everything is online? ???
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Brian H

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 06:27:45 PM »

I have almost completely abandoned X10. Though it was not a quick change but slow one.
Early CM15A and AHP where really buggy. Though now it looks better.
Appliance Modules and Relay Type wall switches clunk so loud you can hear them on the other end of the house.
So I kept X10 signalling but used the Smarthome ApplianceLincs with quiet relays. Along with a 1132CU controller and their Smarthome Manager Essentials.

Some of X10WTI's questionable quality control and sales tactics didn't make my choice to change a difficult one.

Then moved to Insteon as the early modules still supported X10 that has been systematically removed in the latest versions.
Presently using an ISY994i Insteon controller that can still sounding some X10 Chime Modules. It replaced an earlier ISY99i and 2414S PLC before that.

Still have some X10 devices that Insteon does not seem to have a module similar. HR12A can still control sixteen X10 addresses in my Insteon Modules. RR501 still process the HR12A. X10 chime modules still triggered by an X10 Powerflash module and ELK Door Bell sensing board.
Great XTB-IIR still gets the X10 power line signals all over the house and it respects Insteon. Unlike some other X10 repeater couplers.

The 1132CU is still in use from time to time. Along with the tubs of X10 modules. I use to do testes for fellow members here. From time to time. Though it looks like an X10 module house cleaning is getting closer.

I don't anticipate going back to X10 as my main automation system.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 06:37:50 PM by Brian H »
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dave w

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 08:18:40 PM »

Yes, I have thought of switching from X10 to either Insteon or Z-Wave.
With the XTB-IIR repeater I have very good signal reliability. But even with that I would like feedback from the module that it has changed state when commanded, and I would like to poll modules to check or confirm state. No can do with X10, unless the old 2-way modules are resurrected. 
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Tuicemen

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 09:10:05 PM »

Yes, I have thought of switching from X10 to either Insteon or Z-Wave.
With the XTB-IIR repeater I have very good signal reliability. But even with that I would like feedback from the module that it has changed state when commanded, and I would like to poll modules to check or confirm state. No can do with X10, unless the old 2-way modules are resurrected. 
Authinx has stated they plan to reintroduce some older discontinued Items.
Hopefully the RF repeater wasn't the only module they were looking at. ::) :'
I too would love to have several of the old the two way modules, better yet would be if Authinx created a newer improved version.
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HA Dave

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 09:30:36 PM »

I keep looking at Insteon. But I am not actually sure why.

It isn't like my setup is complete. But I do seem to have run short on imagination. So without a project that needs newer technologies to exploit ... I Find myself waiting. I have extra X10 parts and pieces (maybe a lifetimes supply).

There are some things I'd like to do. But the technologies aren't quite there yet. I'd like facial recognition, I'd like a more conversational interaction with my setup/home. I'd like the home/setup to communicate with me through my phone. Both with pre-recorded PHONE voice prompts (alarms) as well as texts. I NEED BETTER phone home control APPS! But I am not going to get any of that just by switching to Insteon or Zwave.   
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 09:38:09 PM by HA Dave »
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bkenobi

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 10:50:55 PM »

I don't think the X10 protocol is an issue, but one definitely has to do more than install the modules for things to work well.  Once an XTB-IIR is installed and filters used to eliminate noise/signal suckers (located via XTBM), PLC should work great.

Prior to investing in modifications, I was very close to throwing in the towel.  Adding the XTB-IIR and filters fixed the PLC issues.  Adding an antenna mod to the CM15A, adding RF amplifiers, and centrally locating it on the booster port of the XTB-IIR fixed much of the rest.  I'm still not happy about the range of the motion sensors nor the "weather proofing", but all of the PLC components I've used seem more than acceptable.

So, I suppose the only other thing that I'd say Insteon has over X10 is that every module is a repeater (as I understand).  If you have range issues with X10, you have to find a signal booster which is much like unobtainium.  I know jvde makes one, but I haven't seen on offered by X10 before.

beelocks

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2016, 02:47:57 AM »

I'm with Brian.
Almost everything I have is now Insteon. Primarily because when X10 went completely dead at almost exactly the same time I had a hard drive failure and I needed something to automate my lightswitches.
I started with the Insteon Homelinc software, but quickly went to the ISY994i controller. I love the two way functionality of the switches.
I must say that the majority of members on the Insteon forum are complete arseheads with completely closed minds whose favourite phrase goes along the lines of "not designed to do that; can't be done" - member BLH seems to be OK though :)

I still have a box of X10 parts kicking around somewhere that I might use for playing with if the fabled wifi unit ever appears, but I'm not jumping in on the first production run; I'll let you lot test it first :)
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Tuicemen

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 09:23:00 AM »

There are some things I'd like to do. But the technologies aren't quite there yet. I'd like facial recognition, I'd like a more conversational interaction with my setup/home. I'd like the home/setup to communicate with me through my phone. Both with pre-recorded PHONE voice prompts (alarms) as well as texts. I NEED BETTER phone home control APPS! But I am not going to get any of that just by switching to Insteon or Zwave.   
Better phone apps may not be that far off. I created a phone program before smartphones were the norm which would do everything your looking at except texts which wouldn't hard to add.
Since Android seems to be easier to code for it may come on it first. ::)
Everyone is playing with face recognition too and is possible on many devices it just hasn't been tied into HA to any great degree, Yet.
As long as X10 releases the protocol for the wifi module It should get more people taking a second look as there seems to be more users running X10 with imaginations.
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dhouston

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2016, 10:12:06 AM »

I must say that the majority of members on the Insteon forum are complete arseheads with completely closed minds whose favourite phrase goes along the lines of "not designed to do that; can't be done" - member BLH seems to be OK though :)
When I posted, "Those who can, do; those who can't Stu." the moderator removed it and admonished me - I haven't been back there since.  ::)

I really liked the features of the early ToggleLinc switches - X10 address, two-way action, reporting local changes, etc. Where I am now, there are no neutrals in the switchboxes so I cannot use them but it would be great for others were Authinx to introduce similarly capable X10 switches. And, they could make each device a (realtime) PLC repeater but I haven't analyzed this from a cost standpoint
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:19:11 AM by dhouston »
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joe s.

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2016, 10:36:16 AM »

I've migrated somewhat similar to lviper and bkenobi - I use HCA software, so I have an upgrade path to other technolgies if ever required.  Currently an alternative to X10 has not been required, because installing XTB-IIR and XTB-232 to generate PLC (my CM15A was an early/flakey product) have restored X10 reliability in my home completely.  Adding to that; a bunch of good quality/dimmable LED lights have made my system a bit greener also.
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lviper

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2016, 10:49:41 AM »

....  Adding to that; a bunch of good quality/dimmable LED lights have made my system a bit greener also.

What dimmable led lights are you using with X10?
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joe s.

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Re: Thinking about moving away from X10?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2016, 11:12:42 AM »

I've had the best luck with older Phillips (haven't bought one in a couple years) and current model Cree.  Most are 60w equivalent.  One of the Cree's didn't like full power via the module's triac and would pulse while bright, even though it was the same bulb as others which worked OK.  Might be the module itself, but I just reprogrammed it to come on and dim to 85% bright and the flashing hasn't been an issue since.  I also use low-temp-tolerant LED bulbs in my driveway lanterns.  Those dim very smoothly, but I can't recall the mfr. 

Keep in mind I do not have "silly" expectations of dimming however....LED's are not like incandescent.  I'm not looking for lights to dim smoothly to 10%.  Generally my dimming programs call up reduction to about 30% or so.
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