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Author Topic: WiFi Surveillance Cameras  (Read 23893 times)

dhouston

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WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« on: March 19, 2016, 01:21:37 PM »

I'd like to find WiFi Surveillance Cameras that can connect to multiple routers. These would go in the entryways of 4-unit apartment buildings and allow each tenant to see who is ringing their doorbell but without commingling their individual networks or that can act as access points to which each tenant can connect with their iOS or Android device.

Is there such a beast? This is a new area for me and I'm not even sure of terminology.

How about this one?
http://www.dlink.com/-/media/Consumer_Products/DCS/DCS%20932L/Manuals/DCS_932L_A1_Manual_v1_00_English.pdf
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 01:38:22 PM by dhouston »
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 02:29:38 PM »

I haven't seen one that will connect to multi routers.
In fact even this one appears to just connect to a single router.
Having it connect to multi routers would be a security nightmare.
Not to mention headaches if a tenant moved or one of those were connected to the internet as well.
It would be best to have it connect to a single router and set each tenant as a guest on the camera only the landlord would have access to the router and cameras setup.
The router would not require internet access so everything would be more secure.
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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 03:58:02 PM »

It would be best to have it connect to a single router and set each tenant as a guest on the camera only the landlord would have access to the router and cameras setup.
The router would not require internet access so everything would be more secure.

After minimal research I was leaning in this direction. As I have a surplus router, I've ordered one of the D-Link cameras and will now have something else to play with. Hopefully, I'll figure out how to do this.
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 04:43:22 PM »

It shouldn't be to hard to setup with any IP camera.
A small app could be created for tenants which would connect to the cameras or you could use the built in interface.
Several guests can access at the same time so 4 tenants wouldn't be a issue.
 >!
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Don N

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 09:38:15 PM »

I understand these devices work pretty well.  See https://ring.com/
Not sure if they will work in your environment, but you might check it out
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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2016, 06:17:38 AM »

I understand these devices work pretty well.  See https://ring.com/
Not sure if they will work in your environment, but you might check it out

I had looked at 2-3 similar devices before posting here but their cost and the need to provide power on or near the door made them impractical. I think positioning and powering a single camera/router will be easier.
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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2016, 08:11:05 AM »

It shouldn't be to hard to setup with any IP camera.
A small app could be created for tenants which would connect to the cameras or you could use the built in interface.
Several guests can access at the same time so 4 tenants wouldn't be a issue.
 >!

I'm still confused about one aspect of the setup.

I understand how to setup the camera with the router. And, my router does have a guest SSID/password combo. I also understand how to access the camera/router from an independent device (e.g. phone, tablet) but how do I connect from my WLAN w/o exposing my WLAN to the other tenants?
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2016, 08:49:32 AM »

I'm still confused about one aspect of the setup.

I understand how to setup the camera with the router. And, my router does have a guest SSID/password combo. I also understand how to access the camera/router from an independent device (e.g. phone, tablet) but how do I connect from my WLAN w/o exposing my WLAN to the other tenants?
Just so I'm clear you'll have a router which will be your WLAN which you connect to the internet with.
You'll have another router which is not your WLAN and this does not connect to the internet but your tenants connect to as well as your self.
Most routers have settings for restricting and or allowing.
I'm certainly no networking expert  and I'm sure this can get very technical using a bridge connection or something.
Myself I just wouldn't connect my WLAN to the other WLan.
 
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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 09:41:19 AM »

Just so I'm clear you'll have a router which will be your WLAN which you connect to the internet with.
You'll have another router which is not your WLAN and this does not connect to the internet but your tenants connect to as well as your self.
Most routers have settings for restricting and or allowing.
I'm certainly no networking expert  and I'm sure this can get very technical using a bridge connection or something.
Myself I just wouldn't connect my WLAN to the other WLan.

But, how do I view the camera from my independent WLAN. Since it's more and more difficult for me to move from room to room, I have PCs in each room, all of which access my WLAN and NAS-HDD, so I can work on projects, browse the web, etc. from wherever I am. I'd like to have instant access to the camera from all of my PCs including one which connects to my TV so I can browse the web, stream Netflix, Amazon Prime, network TV, etc. from my recliner.

Lacking that, my primary work/web area is a desk with a 23" monitor, It has 4 video inputs (VGA, DVI, HDMI, Display Port) which I can switch between with the push of a button (and can even do picture-in-picture with certain combos). Currently, I have a Mac Mini, W7-32 PC (with swappable HDDs for 10 versions of Linux) & W10 PC connected to the monitor although I seldom have more than two under power at once. The only free video input is Display Port.

If necessary, I can use an RPi to connect to the camera/router but I need to use the monitor's HDMI with my W10 PC as it notifies me that I've got mail via the HDMI audio link to the speakers in the monitor. (BTW, I still use the recorded female voice from my first email account with AOL dating back to when the Internet was in its infancy.) Are there HDMI to
Display Port adapters? Or, are the Display Port to HDMI adapters bi-directional? Even if I find a way to connect it to my monitor, it doesn't help when I'm in another room.

As a last resort, I could add a touchscreen to the RPi so that it's a dedicated and relatively inexpensive viewer for the camera, locating it at my primary work/web area, but, again, that doesn't help when I'm in another room.

One other possibility is to tie the cameras to the WLAN they currently have (or plan) for WiFi security cameras monitoring the garage area at the rear of the buildings (which abut a wooded area where I frequently spot deer grazing). But, this seems to present the same problem of isolating my WLAN (plus additional issues related to the security of their WLAN).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:16:13 AM by dhouston »
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2016, 10:05:46 AM »

I'm not saying you can't connect your Wlan to the camera Wlan.
You'll just want to add extra security by playing with both routers settings.
Since every routers setup is different this would be something you'd need to investigate on your own.
You'd want to setup an extra windows firewall rule as well

I have played a bit with multi routers connected to a PC as well as bridging connections.
I know you can have more then one wifi adaptor connected to a PC and each can be connected to a separate router so that is what I'd explore.
A google search may help with this.
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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2016, 11:35:58 AM »

I know you can have more then one wifi adaptor connected to a PC and each can be connected to a separate router so that is what I'd explore.
A google search may help with this.

The Router has a Guest SSID/password so that part looks simple. And, only a preapproved MAC ADDR can connect to my WLAN. It's how to connect to the secondary WLAN w/o compromising my primary WLAN that's proving elusive. Multiple adaptors gets messy with multiple PCs but Edimax dongles are cheap enough so it's not out of the realm of budgetary possibility. But a search re multiple WiFi adaptors on one PC leads to a bottomless morass of noise, no-nos and contradictions - that was one of my first stops along the way.

Maybe, I'll just have to settle for telling whichever machine I'm at to disconnect from my WLAN, then connect to the camera/router WLAN, and then reverse my steps afterwards. That might be workable if the connection details are preserved for each SSID (which it seems they are). It will likely be faster than my navigating to the door. It might also be safer - there was a recent bank robbery and, a few days later, a car jacking of a 77 year old lady about a block away.

 -:) Maybe someone like Edimax can provide a roadmap. I can't imagine that I'm the only one with a need for this.
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 11:50:37 AM »

When connecting two or more routers you have two options(LAN-to-LAN or LAN-to-WAN) 
A LAN-to-LAN (Local Area Network) connection extends your network size, allowing more devices to connect. Devices can share files and resources to any other device on the network. This is not what you want.

This is!
Setting up a LAN-to-WAN network allows you to modify the DNS for just the secondary network, affecting what sites can be visited. The secondary network also makes it extra difficult for hackers to access any devices connected.  Routers setup this way cannot share files or resources with the main network. 

This will explain how to setup both:
http://www.wikihow.com/Connect-Two-Routers

Now the issue you may run into is each tenant may wish to connect the same and I'm not sure if that is possible (maybe with a special router)

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dhouston

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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2016, 07:10:41 AM »

Thanks for the link.

While the documentation is sparse I think I've settled on this camera.
http://www.amazon.com/EWETON-1280x960P-Wireless-Detection-Alarm-W9A/dp/B01CP288FE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_5&smid=A2RQYR2E3DXPER

If I understand correctly, it allows up to 8 P2P connections (via WiFi) using the Guest SSID/Password so there is no necessity for a router except for the initial setup. It would need an Internet link for remote connections via smartphones but, currently, I'm not sure I see a way to tie in individual doorbells so that only the tenant whose doorbell is pressed gets a notification. There may be a way with the 433MHz Onvif protocol but this is the first time I've encountered Onvif so I'll have to do a bit of digging.

If an Internet link is needed, the complex will have its own LAN/WLAN for its security cameras so this can tie in there.

And, I've figured out how to rearrange my monitor's video inputs to free the VGA input. I can connect my RPi using an HDMI to VGA cable. This can keep the camera system air-gapped from my WLAN. I can also connect to the RPi via WiFi from any of my PCs but I still need to think through the ramifications of that.
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2016, 08:54:37 AM »

I remember reading an article on the number of Users that can connect to a IP camera at once.
If I remember correctly the maximum was 8 continued connections so if all 8 users were connected from a home pc say and they left home they would be locked out if checking from their cellphone.
So it would be wise to recommend tenants not leave their connections open if going out.

Also I noticed this camera has the ability for night vision which most do now.
the IR will reflect off glass so you either need the ability to disable IR if glass is going to be in view.
If the camera is in a well lite lobby you may not need the IR anyways.
You also may not need the pan and tilt abilities of this camera so a fixed one may be better for your situation.
you may also wish to see if you can get the proto call for the camera.
having this may allow you to create some added extras for when each door bell is pressed.

I have a Foscam mounted inside my home which auto turns to the door which is opened. (it monitors 3 doors using x10 door window sensors)
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Re: WiFi Surveillance Cameras
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2016, 09:19:22 AM »

The complex has three 4-unit buildings so 8 connections should be adequate with one camera per building. And, if I cannot find a way to send notifications when doorbells are pressed, there will be little need for remote connections.

There are two narrow glass areas on each side of the entry door but they are to one side of where the camera will be mounted so I doubt they will be an issue.

I don't think pan'n'tilt will be very useful either but I want 1280p and two way audio (critical) and most with those features also have pan'n'tilt and IR. Plus, this one has an excellent price. If you know of a stationery unit with 1280p, two way audio, a way to link to doorbells and a good price, let me know.

While the lobby is well lit, there's a handy light switch that cable salesmen and other bad guys might make use of.

I found an email address for Eweton and requested more complete documentation. If they respond I'll ask for the communication protocol and ask whether the IR can be disabled.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:48:14 AM by dhouston »
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