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Author Topic: RR501 Failure, other issues.  (Read 2713 times)

BackAgain

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RR501 Failure, other issues.
« on: October 20, 2016, 10:05:23 PM »

I've been digging out some older stuff trying to get it working again.  Several AM486s seem to be OK, as are some LM465s.  Keychain remotes work OK but batteries don't seem to hold up very long.

Since I'm trying to switch to LEDs, I'm finding they don't turn off completely using the LM465s and some flicker.  Some work better with the AM486s.  I don't try to dim any of them.

Having a problem with some outlets, probably due to being on the 'other leg' of the panel.  Most units work, but some don't always respond.  They may turn on but not off for example.  I remember trying in install a capacitor to bridge as described on the previous forum, but it didn't accomplish much.  Is there still a preferred bridge unit that doesn't cost a fortune?


The only RF unit I have that works is a TM751, but I have a range issue if I get too far from it.

I have an RR501, but it doesn't do anything at all, not even when pushing the on-board button.  I've glanced at some of the older threads, but I'm not sure if they are the same as my problem.

The cameras are all dead, but some of the power supplies work.  I've found that I can use them to power some 12VDC LED strips and they'll respond to commands from remotes and if set as LM465s in the old Active Home.

The Serial Port CM11 still works.

As best I can tell, the old Active Home won't install on my Win 7 64 B machines, but I still have an XP machine that it works on.

I tried to install the new Active Home Pro on one of the Win 7 machines, but it didn't seem to control the CM11 despite the Com Port setup.  Not sure why.

I guess the main questions for now are about bridging and repairing the RR501.


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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2016, 06:20:44 AM »

You may want to  look at Jeff's great troubleshooting tutorials for some added information.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm

Besides phase coupling. You may have power line noise makers or signal suckers. As many modern electronic devices suck up the X10 power line signals or put noise back on the power lines.

The simple cap was not the most effective coupling method. Many used the incorrect type not made to be across the 240VAC use and they would short out going BANG or safely open up and not work.
Jeff does make the Cadillac of phase coupler repeaters. I have the XTB-IIR that blasts over 20 volts of X10 signals back on both phases. I have seen excellent reviews of his XTBR unit along with a passive phase coupler. Fixing many users issues.

As for the RR501. I have seen a few different hardware version schematics. Not sure if they are on the NET anymore as many of the X10 related web sites have folded up and the archiving sites may not have them.

Most likely problem is the power supply area when a device is completely dead. I rebuilt one of my RR501's when the Zener Diode in the supply got too warm and the solder got flaky. I also changed the old capacitors while it was apart.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:25:10 AM by Brian H »
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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2016, 07:57:21 AM »

LED bulbs are going to be a problem with many X10 devices.
Even LED bulbs made to be used on dimmers. May not play nice with the older hardware Lamp and Appliance Modules.
The Local Control Sensing circuit. May make them flash when Off.
The dimming circuit in Lamp Modules may make the LED bulb pulse or flicker.
Two wire X10 dimmers probably will not work correctly with LED bulbs made for dimmers.
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2016, 07:58:24 AM »


As for the RR501. I have seen a few different hardware version schematics. Not sure if they are on the NET anymore as many of the X10 related web sites have folded up and the archiving sites may not have them.

Most likely problem is the power supply area when a device is completely dead. I rebuilt one of my RR501's when the Zener Diode in the supply got too warm and the solder got flaky. I also changed the old capacitors while it was apart.

I think yours was the one I looked at here, but it was dated 2010 or so.  Mine has the same number on the board.  There is some slight discoloration around C23, D6, R11, but nothing major and none of the components are discolored or malformed.   The only exception is the large green item just above that area, but I can't see a designator on it.  The bottom end of it is slightly browned.

I have had some power failures and surges and a couple of lightning hits over the years that have fried networking items and a UPS or two, so there may be something else dead in this one.

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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 08:51:34 AM »

The one I reworked was a 2F23.

The large component above the area is probably a capacitor.
In the 2F23 it is a 2.2uf/250 volt and a 22 Ohm 1/2W close to it. One Zener diode.
The manual button on the front pushes a switch on the PCB.

I looked at a 10G28.
The capacitor in it is 1.0uF/250 volt and the resistor near it is a 10 Ohm 1/2W.
Not too sure maybe two zener diodes.
The manual button is one of those rubber ones with a graphite contact. That touches two pads on the PCB when pushed.
 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 09:12:08 AM by Brian H »
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 01:32:15 PM »

The switch is a metal bubble contact.








Images won't post?
edited by tuicemen to fix image post
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:43:08 PM by Tuicemen »
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 03:12:59 PM »

There's an image tag in that post above if someone wants to edit it.

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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 06:13:29 PM »

I don't see any image tag in the messages.
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Tuicemen

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 06:44:10 PM »

The link was missing the extension ;)
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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 07:00:45 AM »

That does look like the one I rebuilt.
The large Green component near the edge. Is the 2.2uF 250 volt capacitor.
In mine the Zener had overheated and I had the same blackish PCB in the area. Got so warm the solder got flaky and made bad connections. I replaced the Zener with two lower voltage 1 watt ones in series adding up to the same voltage as the original.
Also replaced  470uF/25 volt cap.
Attached is a schematic I found on a now defunct automation web site. They used their own part numbering so the silk screening on the RR501 PCB will not match. From their file. I changed DZ5 with two in series adding up to the 20V and C24.
I would also look at C25,R 22 Ohm,L 100uH, D6.
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2016, 08:25:00 AM »

They used their own part numbering so the silk screening on the RR501 PCB will not match. From their file. I changed DZ5 with two in series adding up to the 20V and C24.
I would also look at C25,R 22 Ohm,L 100uH, D6.

File requests a PW, but will open without it.  No picture of the board included.  Their C24 you mention would be my C23 then?  The 25V 470uf electrolytic can?  I need to see what I have, which is very little.  If I have to start hunting components and dealing with shipping (no local stores since RS went belly up), it may not be worth the effort especially since I have no way to test components and would be shooting in the dark at what to replace.  I found a couple of RR501s for fairly cheap.

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dhouston

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2016, 08:40:08 AM »

One other factor to consider - the RR501 is a polite PLC transmitter which waits for a clear powerline to transmit. Noise might cause its silence.
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2016, 08:44:20 AM »

One other factor to consider - the RR501 is a polite PLC transmitter which waits for a clear powerline to transmit. Noise might cause its silence.

That wouldn't prevent the on-board button from working.  This one does nothing at all.

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Brian H

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2016, 01:22:58 PM »

I found out the file I uploaded was Write Protected. Maybe that is why it asked for a PW.

If you found a few fairly cheap and working RR501's. That maybe a better way to go.
I use Mouser and DigiKey for my parts needs. Both have fairly decent prices and not too expensive shipping.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 01:42:10 PM by Brian H »
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BackAgain

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Re: RR501 Failure, other issues.
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2016, 05:37:55 PM »

I found out the file I uploaded was Write Protected. Maybe that is why it asked for a PW.

If you found a few fairly cheap and working RR501's. That maybe a better way to go.
I use Mouser and DigiKey for my parts needs. Both have fairly decent prices and not too expensive shipping.

I missed them.  There were 2 for $40.  Oh well.

I'll keep looking.

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